How much do we need to pay for consultants?

J

jerzki

#1
Hello all covers and quality guru's!

Gud day to you all!
Our management is with this consultants for almost over 2 - 3 years now and still our management is not seeing progress, that I would say! Upon my employment here, I have started things or started to clarify the things for them. I know that this consultant is good but i believe the company is lagging so much behind this certification. As i have posted on my posts before, the GM insist he will be the QMR, and he do; he is reviewing the documents that I have prepared applicable to the system, along with the nominated ISO team. Project Managers , they are the four big people of the company. I know this is good, and I believe the company is progressing.
But finally, the management has decided to have a consultant for this ISO project to act as mediator and to clarify things. Because if i am the one who is telling that this and this should be done they tend to hesitate the idea and every meeting, I can say we are dicussing in a high temperature tones but eventually seized down after the meeting. Well, to avoid this I have suggested to go for another consultants coz as I've told you our consultant before is making communications only once in a blue moon. ( whew! i guess this is a long intro...:D ).
My question is , how much does a consultant really have to be paid. We have 100 - 120 owned employees, about plus 500 contrated from other companies, and about 30 people to be directly involved in the implementation.We have prepared the manual already, and some supporting documents.All we need is the fine tuning and the expedite implementation of this project. Just a picture how much as of today's trend!
Thanks in advance covers!!!!!

Jerzki:bigwave:
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#2
Re: HOw much do we really need to pay for consultants?

First, let us know which country are you from. We had been guessing from day one. Wes thought you are Asian but from your name/nick, I thought you are from Eastern Europe.

Fees vary a lot from country to country.
 
J

jerzki

#3
Re: HOw much do we really need to pay for consultants?

a big sorry to all folks,

I am an asian but currently working here in saudi right now. Hope this may clears up.
thanks again.

Jerzki:bigwave:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
If you have a consultant that has been working for 2 or 3 years to develop a QMS you'd be better off to pay him his travel back home and hire someone else.

You're next step should be to find someone who knows what he's doing, or better yet, save the money and do it yourself.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#5
Goodness, at 2-3 years that consultant seems practically an employee! :mg:

It's t-o-o l-o-n-g a period for such contracted work. Maybe I have a suspicious mind, but I wonder if this fellow is hoping to be just absorbed into the company as Management Rep.
 
B

Britman - 2012

#6
Well said Randy and Jennifer

Have they included a “Cost of Quality” review!!!!!!
 
T

Ted Schmitt

#7
We had a consultant for a few years and we finally kicked him in the #($#@ right out the door... we got a team together (MR, Quality manager, Engineering Manager and Production Manager) burned up all his work and started from zero.... six months later we had our pre-audit and two months after that a sucessfull certification audit... we had 130 employees and total support from management... alot of sweat, reading, couses but we are proud to say we did it with NO external help...

I think if you are well versed in the standard, and your GM wants to be directly involved, I see no reason for a consultant....
 

atitheya

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
If you have a consultant that has been working for 2 or 3 years to develop a QMS you'd be better off to pay him his travel back home and hire someone else.

You're next step should be to find someone who knows what he's doing, or better yet, save the money and do it yourself.
Though I completely agree :yes: with above on the time taken, sometimes it does happen that the company does not respond appropriately and the project gets delayed beyond imagination.

This could happen due to more than one reason and specially when the consultant is helping the people of the organisation develop the QMS and not developing on his own. These reasons could be:

- busy schedules such as those of Doctors for a private nursing home,
- changes in top / middle management,
- lack of top management commitment,
- inability of top management to keep the people motivated in developing and implementing,
- conflicting egos etc etc.

No, it is not a regular feature, but such instances do occur. Sometimes the consultant has to really work hard to chase the organisation to maintain continuity in order to progress.:frust:
 
S

somerqc

#9
Having implemented 3 systems as a full time employee, there are instances where some level of top management of the company or facility is not 100% committed. As a full-time employee you want to keep your job, so you plod along to get it done. However, this lack of committment creates delays in implementing the system as the "rank and file" see the lack of committment and realize there are no ramifications for NOT following the system.

However, when being hired as a consultant this would be for a max 18 month duration (depending on status of current system and availability of auditors). Anything more than that when using a consultant indicates either a poor consultant or a complete lack of management support. In either case, the consultant shouldn't be there.

Costs for consultants vary dramatically depending on region though! Even in the same area costs vary dramatically.

John
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Hello all covers and quality guru's!

Gud day to you all!
Our management is with this consultants for almost over 2 - 3 years now and still our management is not seeing progress, that I would say! Upon my employment here, I have started things or started to clarify the things for them. I know that this consultant is good but i believe the company is lagging so much behind this certification. As i have posted on my posts before, the GM insist he will be the QMR, and he do; he is reviewing the documents that I have prepared applicable to the system, along with the nominated ISO team. Project Managers , they are the four big people of the company. I know this is good, and I believe the company is progressing.
But finally, the management has decided to have a consultant for this ISO project to act as mediator and to clarify things. Because if i am the one who is telling that this and this should be done they tend to hesitate the idea and every meeting, I can say we are dicussing in a high temperature tones but eventually seized down after the meeting. Well, to avoid this I have suggested to go for another consultants coz as I've told you our consultant before is making communications only once in a blue moon. ( whew! i guess this is a long intro...:D ).
My question is , how much does a consultant really have to be paid. We have 100 - 120 owned employees, about plus 500 contrated from other companies, and about 30 people to be directly involved in the implementation.We have prepared the manual already, and some supporting documents.All we need is the fine tuning and the expedite implementation of this project. Just a picture how much as of today's trend!
Thanks in advance covers!!!!!

Jerzki:bigwave:
Harry says I have commented about you and your posts before -I don't remember and don't have time now to search for them.

However, based on just THIS thread, I have a STRONG hunch the primary problem causing delays is one of communication.

Regardless whether it is a language translation problem or one of being unable to convert technical jargon to everyday language used by the folks who actually have to implement quality policies and systems, the end result is one of confusion, frustration, and even paranoia.

A major problem I have seen over the years between consultants and clients really boils down to a failure on the part of BOTH parties to conduct an adequate Contract Review, establishing "plateaus" (checkpoints) to determine whether the process is progressing according to plan. If the plan is seriously off schedule, as the one stated here apparently is, THEN the parties need to re-evaluate the contract and the plan, even to the point of stopping and starting over with a new consultant.

In this case, the induced paranoia of the management has caused them to question the validity of comments and documents of BOTH you (jerzki) and the unnamed consultant. In order to go forward, that paranoia has to be erased.

In sounds to me like your management team needs to find an advisor it trusts (attorney, CPA, valued customer or supplier, world class expert, etc.) to help them sort out the "pepper from fly specks" in the current situation. The progress is obviously being sabotaged - the question is whether it is conscious or unconscious. The actual saboteurs may end up being the management, itself - a common theme if you read enough Deming!

Once the trusted advisor helps the management figure out the true status of the project, the management can choose to
  1. adopt a new plan
  2. restart the original plan with some modification (mostly in management attitude and participation)
  3. give up the idea altogether and sell out the company to a different management team which can take the project forward.
Bottom line:
The truth in business is that some management teams simply are not flexible enough to adopt a new system and consciously or unconsciously sabotage any attempt to implement one, regardless of any overt lip service avowing their desire for the change.

:(Sorry - no quick solutions to this issue. It is definitely NOT an issue of the rate of pay for the consultant, except where a client may hire a cheap, incompetent consultant, based on price, not qualification.
 
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