How much do we need to pay for consultants?

J

jerzki

#21
Thank you all folks for your bearing with me.

Yes and with other folks, the head is the input of another orifice located beneath the waste line
..... don't do unto others what you dont want others to do unto you....:cool:


However, based on just THIS thread, I have a STRONG hunch the primary problem causing delays is one of communication
...this maybe is a fact, bacause for months of my stay here in this company I have seen this consultant only twice.Yeah, it's true! I know he is good but maybe for some hidden things and that is not for me to bother.:D

And as for this company. The company is earning good and had captured an earning in big big returns that i could say. The management is committed and is willing to pursue the qms. I have discuss this to them and as they say they want the system be put in place , not the certificate.

The documentation have been prepared, though some fine tuning maybe needed. i always discuss things to the up's and now receiving good feedback. The reason why we need such consultant is for the fine tuning, and identify some areas where there maybe some NC's. I know I am quite well versed in the standard but am not an expert that's why we need some assistance on running the system.

Wes Bucey
... they do stink
.... you may say so and sometimes it irritates me and my poor nose...:biglaugh: but it is my duty though....:cool:

..well let's see what i can do , hope my nose will not bleed :biglaugh:...thanks to all covers!:yes::thanks:


jerzki:bigwave:
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#22
I had been following Jerzki's post since the beginning. From what was posted previously, it appears there are two main factors. Communication with the consultant is one - as can be seen in this thread and management commitment, at least in the early days is another. In one of the post, it was mentioned that the consultant is giving him tight datelines to meet which to me indicate that the consultant is still trying to help them achieve something.

In another thread, he mentioned that everything is done by him - just imagine what the consultant can do if he wasn't around? Also bear in mind the difference between consultancy and hand-holding or spoon feeding.

You can't forced a horse to drink and it will do so when it is thirsty. I would give his consultant the benefit of doubt because he can still stay saned after having a simple project dragged on for 3 donkey years. With regards to his competency, I reserve comments.
 

phxsun2001

Involved - Posts
#24
Goodness, at 2-3 years that consultant seems practically an employee! :mg:

It's t-o-o l-o-n-g a period for such contracted work. Maybe I have a suspicious mind, but I wonder if this fellow is hoping to be just absorbed into the company as Management Rep.
It does seem long.

I am just wondering what is the best way to quote a job, to assist an ISO implementation team of a company to obtain certification. I have been using # of mandays. For a company of 100 employee, I figure 2 days for management training and employee orientation, 2 days for internal auditor training, Then about 2-3 days a month for 9 months, for a total of about 25-30 mandays. Is this the right approach? I think companies want to get an idea how much it is going to cost them to bring in a consultant. If my daily rate is $900, the estimated total would be $27,000. If this is over their budget, then I may be out of the picture.

What are the best ways to quote ISO implementation jobs?

Should I just give them my daily rate and leave the # of mandays open?
 
L

LSS Master

#25
In my experience, I find that a well-prepared project plan, including milestones and deliverables, will provide the most accurate framework within which the client and the consultant will be best served. The consultant provides an accurate estimate/plan for the client, so the client doesn't buy "a pig in a poke". The consultant uses the plan to easily calculate level of effort for himself/herself (in billable hours, days, etc.).

The plan, when broken into monthly segments, provides additional benefit. The consultant invoices the client for the work completed at the end of the month. The client, if satisfied with the deliverables and service will extend the engagement to the next month. In that manner, the consultant earns the client's business every month and the client isn't pressured into signing an extended -length contract.

This approach has served me well for over 20 years.
 
A

ab001

#26
Could you just pay for an audit?

3rd party, not your absent consultant.

Paying for 5-10 man-days (wild guess $10-20K) might sound alot if you had to pay for it yourself, but be trivial in your operating budget.

Even if you're not going for certification, your audit report would give you some good recommendations/opportinities/NCs.



Thank you all folks for your bearing with me.


..... don't do unto others what you dont want others to do unto you....:cool:



...this maybe is a fact, bacause for months of my stay here in this company I have seen this consultant only twice.Yeah, it's true! I know he is good but maybe for some hidden things and that is not for me to bother.:D

And as for this company. The company is earning good and had captured an earning in big big returns that i could say. The management is committed and is willing to pursue the qms. I have discuss this to them and as they say they want the system be put in place , not the certificate.

The documentation have been prepared, though some fine tuning maybe needed. i always discuss things to the up's and now receiving good feedback. The reason why we need such consultant is for the fine tuning, and identify some areas where there maybe some NC's. I know I am quite well versed in the standard but am not an expert that's why we need some assistance on running the system.

Wes Bucey

.... you may say so and sometimes it irritates me and my poor nose...:biglaugh: but it is my duty though....:cool:

..well let's see what i can do , hope my nose will not bleed :biglaugh:...thanks to all covers!:yes::thanks:


jerzki:bigwave:
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#27
We'll who need consultant if you have a deeper knowledge about the standard, and its interpretations. There are so many talented engineers in the company who might just waiting for the break in their life to prove something that they can do better than hiring a consultant.
I'm not against in hiring consultant, as I myself is also a consultant, but sometimes, the word "consultant" was mis-interpreted as part time employee to create or generate documents for them. I am still new regarding this kind of service and I need to learn more what should be the responsibilities of a Consultant...
Raffy :cool:
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#28
Our company did not hire Consultant for the last three Certifications. The Top Management depend to its homegrown talents who is responsible enough to take the lead plus Management Commitment. It was so nice that we are all supported by Top Management.
Thank you .
Best regards,
Raffy :cool:
 
M

Madisaman

#29
If you have a consultant that has been working for 2 or 3 years to develop a QMS you'd be better off to pay him his travel back home and hire someone else.

You're next step should be to find someone who knows what he's doing, or better yet, save the money and do it yourself.


Hello all,

From my experience in this field and this area, you should go with this. Look, to create QMS, for this size of organization, it shouldn't cost you more than 100,000 SR (20,000 - 30,000 $).

If you have the commitment from your top management, it shouldn’t take this long to create procedures, policies, QMS, work instructions (if you need).

Best regards,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P

patjk

#30
WOW!!! That is way too long. Consultant's pay is dependent on many things but can run anywhere from $500 per day to over $10,000 per day. From my experience the average aviation consultant with credentials and experience would demand $1500 to $2500 per day but the fee could be based on the project.

I have written QMS manuals for the aviation sector, much more complicated than the ISO group and I have completed it within 6 months. And that is not working on it full time. I charge an up front fee based on the standard (ISO9001, AS9100, AS9110 or AS9120) and the complexity of the business. Your consultants are either milking your organization or are on retainer as a continuous improvement team, internal auditors or some other organizational activity that requires a long term commitment.

I was involved with a consultant in the automotive sector that would request changes to the QMS manual and when those changes were made would request changes to the changes. Progress was not being made and his contract was terminated. These individuals give the rest of us and the practice of consulting a bad name. You should demand some measureable progress from your consultant because we are in business to provide value. Next time you should try to obtain a performance clause in the contract. Uncovering potential problem areas is hard to measure because the consultant is preventing something that hasn't occurred but you can see progress.
 
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