How Much Time Do You Spend Training A New Internal Auditor? (Poll)

How much time do you spend on training a new internal auditor?

  • 0 hours - we don't perform any training for our internal auditors

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • 1-2 hours

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • 3-4 hours

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • 5-8 hours

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • 2 days

    Votes: 8 21.1%
  • 3 days

    Votes: 10 26.3%
  • 5 days

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • more than 5 days

    Votes: 6 15.8%

  • Total voters
    38
T

tschones

#1
New Internal Auditor Training

In our organization we rotate internal auditors every year. That puts a heavy stress on the organization in terms of training all new auditors each year. For your organization, how many hours do you spend on training a new internal auditor?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Good question.

Roughly three days formal training, to start things off, and then a bit every now and then to keep them in shape.

We keep our Infernal auditors longer than two years, but they hardly ever audit the same areas every year.

/Claes
 
#3
I teach internal auditing, and we have a two-day EMS internal auditor class and a three-day QMS internal auditor class. I think yearly rotation is too often. By the time the auditors feel comfortable, they are rotated out. Your auditors are constantly just learning.

Here is an alternative. Three year cycle. Each year, you rotate out 1/3. That way your experience base is extended, yet you get "fresh eyes" each year.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#4
I voted for 2 days, but that is only for the initial, classroom-only training for Internal Auditors.

My pool receives training sessions when I see the caliber beginning to slip. And all auditors receive regular Internal Auditor Assessments. A possible generated action out of an Assessment is more training...and this has been indicated a few times for Auditors who have audited in a while.

And then there is the practical, application training of auditing. A Trainee (aka "slug" ;) ) must complete, as a minimum, two Internal Audits and received an average score of 'good' on his/her Assessment for each Audit and the recommendations to be bumped up to Team.

If received, the Trainee is bumped up to Team status. For Lead, the above process is repeated, with recommendations required to be bumped up to Lead.

Training is an ongoing process, whether the pool realizes it or not. Even if no formal Assessment is being conducted, I watch my Auditors, looking for areas of improvement and praising them when appropriate.

Training goes beyond just the classroom - the initial two days that I spend with the Trainees is just the foundation to learning how to be a good Auditor.
 
#5
RCBeyette said:
Training is an ongoing process, whether the pool realizes it or not. Even if no formal Assessment is being conducted, I watch my Auditors, looking for areas of improvement and praising them when appropriate.

Training goes beyond just the classroom - the initial two days that I spend with the Trainees is just the foundation to learning how to be a good Auditor.
Two real important points here, first: training is continual. It's not like tying your shoe, once you do it, its over. Okay bad example sometimes you have to retie.

Secondly, training is just the first (or one of the first) step, which leads back to the first item.
 
G

Groo3

#6
We do a standard 3-day trianing for new Auditors. This includes two days of in-class training and one day of hands on auditing with a follow-up review. Further training then takes place about once every one to one and a half years, or as necessary (as determined by our Facilitators or Management Review Teams).

We may also supplement that training with some training of our Internal Assessment and Corrective Action systems... both of which are electronic databases. This would add another 2 hours to the training above (per year or so).

PS: We do not rotate auditors out of our Auditor pool... We do however try to keep life interesting by not asking our people to audit the same processes over and over again...

A couple more points on our Internal Auditors - we use three levels to define the skill sets of our Auditor pool... (1) Auditor, (2) Lead Auditor and (3) Audit Process Facilitator. Each of these levels has a varying degree of both training and experience, and the roles and responsibilities increase along with the length of their titles. Auditors are used to support the Leads as necessary, they may or may not have received formal training. Lead Auditors have either served as an Auditor in several audits, had formal training, served as a Lead in a previous assignment (prior to their employment at our facility), or all of the above. Audit Process Facilitators have served as a Lead on several Audits and may have even achieved certification (though we do not require certification, we do acknowledge that a certification may have some value).

Our Internal Auditor pool does change over time, so we do find ourselves training new auditors each time we conduct our refresher training.
 
G

Groo3

#7
Claes Gefvenberg said:
We keep our Infernal auditors longer than two years, but they hardly ever audit the same areas every year.

/Claes
Claes, just wondering if that was a typo? :)) Infernal Auditors? That title might better suit an external auditor? or a financial auditor?
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
All new auditors go through a 16 hour course that I teach. Then they go through a few team audits, then solo. They have updated training at various intervals.
 

bpritts

Involved - Posts
#10
2 level internal audit

With many of my clients we use a 2 level internal audit process. These
folks are auto suppliers, 25 - 250 employees per site typically.

Top level= "systems" audit using the appropriate full standard (QS9000,
TS16949, ISO 9000)

Second level = "process" audit of an individual work instruction. Might be
a shop floor or office activity.

We teach a 1 day class to the general internal audit team focused only
on the second level. We use a generic audit checklist that verifies the
key items (process control, controlled documents in use, gages calibrated,
operator following the process...) The checklist has NO references to
the standard per se -- just the key concepts.

The vast majority of internal audit hours over the course of a year are spent
on level two process audits. We do 1 full system audit a year (QS9000
minimum. This is done by the Mgt Rep, QS9000 leader, or often by me
or a colleague (outside consultants). If Mgt Rep or QS9000 leader,
I have trained with OJT, or sent them to an outside class. (I am ISO 9000
LA course certified, former RAB QSLA)

For TS purposes so far I am relying on having the systems auditor use one
of the AIAG/Plexus courses as their qualification with a brief awareness
training for the rank and file IA's.

We used to teach the whole standard to all the internal audit team and
found it didn't seem to be added value. Too much preoccupation with
the jargon of the standard.

Our internal auditors don't know element numbers, but they know their
processes, and how to audit!

Best regards,

Brad
 
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