How to Audit an Internal Audit and Internal Auditors

E

eva_deng

#21
The internal auditors should be qualified(In china,they should be trained and have a internal auditor certificate) and they don't audit their own work.

should there be a sop to manage what,who,how and when to audit?or all be written into QM?
 
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E Wall

Just Me!
Super Moderator
#22
Another way to go, if your organization is large enough, is to have someone that is an internal auditor at another facility (from corporate office, R&D, or plant) perform the audit at your location for IA. We utilize folks where we can, there are always projects going on so fitting in some extra time while they are on site already isn't too difficult to do.

Just remember if you use personnel not assigned to your location, you must have records of their qualifications on hand in your local files (typically both HR and QA Mgr have copies) and keep them up to date.

If you have a small organization you can have someone from another dept audit the process (someone with backbone - remember that a warm body isn't enough, there are character traits that make for better auditors) as an audit team member. This requires no formal training. Have prepared folder with standard/spec requirements, QM, procedures, blank audit forms etc...they should be able to manage from there with minimal technical guidance from a certified lead internal auditor. The lead auditor would be checking only that the company procedures have been followed for this specific audit - not guiding or passing judgement on the audit itself.
 
R

Ron Tollett

#23
Does an Internal Auditor need to be certified? Or can they be trained by a certified internal auditor within the company?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#24
Does an Internal Auditor need to be certified? Or can they be trained by a certified internal auditor within the company?
No, Internal Auditors must be competent. (Demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills).
They can be trained by an internal competent trainer.

Stijloor.
 
R

Ron Tollett

#25
Therefore, when the registrar asks who are the internal audtors are and they do not have certification but were trained by a competent certified auditor this will be acceptable?
 
#26
Therefore, when the registrar asks who are the internal auditors are and they do not have certification but were trained by a competent certified auditor this will be acceptable?
Ron, let me help you here. Can you find anywhere in the ISO 9001 standard - or any other standard you can be registered to - that internal auditors 'shall' be 'certified'? Or any other position, for that matter?

Auditors have to be competent, not possess certification. Unless you've got something in a document which says otherwise, if you have competent auditors, and you've done and recorded what that means, you should be just fine. It may not stop the individual CB auditor asking, but they'd be incorrect to start down that road.
 
S

sarah0305

#27
Maybe I am reading to deeply into this and should back up a bit.
AndyN mentioned that an auditor can't audit his/her own work and I know that from the learning I did here and in reading the standards.
My supervisor will be teaching me what and how to conduct an audit,
He is a lead assessor and is sharing with me what he knows.
Now he will be auditing my audits when we get to that point.
Since he has given me instruction and guidance in how to conduct an audit, would he be in turn auditing his own work?
I am not being sarcastic or looking for fault in the system but I am simply looking at the possible problems down the road.

:thanx:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#28
Maybe I am reading to deeply into this and should back up a bit.
AndyN mentioned that an auditor can't audit his/her own work and I know that from the learning I did here and in reading the standards.
My supervisor will be teaching me what and how to conduct an audit,
He is a lead assessor and is sharing with me what he knows.
Now he will be auditing my audits when we get to that point.
Since he has given me instruction and guidance in how to conduct an audit, would he be in turn auditing his own work?
I am not being sarcastic or looking for fault in the system but I am simply looking at the possible problems down the road.

:thanx:
Because he was the person who trained you, he'll be verifying the effectiveness of the training to ensure that you are competent.

I would not call it "auditing his own work" although it may be interpreted that way. I would call it verifying training. You'll be OK.

Wishing you success with learning.

Stijloor.
 
S

sarah0305

#29
Thanks for clarifing this.
I still have my douts about this ISO thing but I am willing to go with it.
Yes I am an old bog and stubborn to learn new tricks.

:thanx:
 
#30
Thanks for clarifing this.
I still have my doubts about this ISO thing but I am willing to go with it.

:thanx:
What doubts do you have? This "ISO thing" has been around a long time (relatively) so there's not much to 'fear' from it. Take a look at Craig Cochran's book, ISO 9001 in Plain English - that'll be a great help to you...
 
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