How to conduct internal audits?

B

Boscoeee

#11
While you are learning how to perform an internal audit of your own processes and procedures, here is the best tip that I have from the experience of having to do it.

Back up and flow out your processes in flow chart format in detail.

Audit the process to the flow chart in actual production to determine whether or not the process flows and operates as designed. Pay particular attention to how process operators are performing to the written instructions as to whether there are any variables that appear that were not accounted for in the initial set up of the "effective" process. Look for where tribal knowledge is filling the gaps if there are any. These are opportunities to strengthen the process with Best Known Practices if they are part of an effective process.

IMHO flowing out a process and monitoring the actual process in use shows one quickly how well it is working or not working and how well it is understood by the process operators. I have had processes that were completely out of control to the procedures and work instructions, but by Tribal Knowledge the process operators were successful.

Good luck with your project, I am sure that we all would like to here what your findings were.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Ralph, good advice!

I'd take it a bit further and suggest that instead of any auditor spending time (alone) to map the process, they should sit with the Process Owner and base the 'map' on this person tells you it is. This will ensure the auditor doesn't screw up the audit with a misconception. Get it from the 'horses mouth'.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#13
Keep it simple at this point.

Look at your procedures...The ones you picked.

Check and see if you guys do what you guys say you are going to do.

If you are....Fine

If you aren't...Report it.

Starting out just worry about the meat and potato's........you have time enough to worry about the gravy and trimmings.
 
#14
Keep it simple at this point.
Look at your procedures...The ones you picked.
Check and see if you guys do what you guys say you are going to do.
If you are....Fine
If you aren't...Report it.
Starting out just worry about the meat and potato's........you have time enough to worry about the gravy and trimmings.
But Randy - you have to have Green veggies in there too!
 
G

gooofii

#16
Gooofii,

How about the fantastic response?

Marc, Jennifer, Roxane, Ralph, Andy; all excellent "Cove consultants" helping you out.

Take their advice to heart and you will do well.

(Work on those managers too will you?;))

Stijloor.
Yea!..although its quite tough response :whip: but i do appreciate that coz for me it means that they care !
I think i just might have not been clear enough while explaining the case, I will take a breath now ! and will reply
 
V

Varadarajan

#17
Hi,

The following attachments may be useful.
We had used this in some small scale industries and found ok by CB auditors.(Excel templates)

The word flow chart attachment is from our elsmar cove.

You may modify these for your specific requirements and as suggested by our cove experts.

v rajan
 

Attachments

Q

qualitymoron

#18
Hello every one and HAPPY new year,
I wanted to make a new thread actually but I did not know how. As this time I am asking about How to do Internal Auditing . Now I've finished the QM and the manager asked me to pick 6-7 effective procedures and audit them. To be honest, I never done auditing before. I 've done an audit report for recording the auditing process, but I donno i think its quite generic. i looked in the cove aswell but i think i couldnot find what i need. I appreciate any thoughts or ideas about how to do auditing and if this auditing report is useful

P.S, if one of the moderator seperate this as a new thread that would be greatfull.
thxx and happy new year !
Are you auditing to a particualr standard? For example TS16949 underlines the importance of customer requirements AS WELL as those of the standard. ISO9001 looks like it's heading that way too with it's latest revamp.

If you are auditing to these standards it's also well worth remembering that it's difficult to remain objective and impartial if you came up with the procedures in the first place!

I think the advice of mapping out your process in a flow chart is very helpful. It will highlight areas that you might not have considered need improving and prompt you to ask "why do we do that", "how often do we do that" etc. Always start off by looking to see if you (your company) are doing what you SAY you are doing, then look at how it complies with any standard you're bound by. If it's all still going well at that point, you can move onto improvements!

An audit course would improve your understanding of the auditing process, plus you could get a colleague to go along at the same time (if possible).

Remember, you're not trying to catch people out during audits, just verifying processes and procedures:read:
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:
#19
Are you auditing to a particualr standard? For example TS16949 underlines the importance of customer requirements AS WELL as those of the standard. ISO9001 looks like it's heading that way too with it's latest revamp.

If you are auditing to these standards it's also well worth remembering that it's difficult to remain objective and impartial if you came up with the procedures in the first place!

I think the advice of mapping out your process in a flow chart is very helpful. It will highlight areas that you might not have considered need improving and prompt you to ask "why do we do that", "how often do we do that" etc. Always start off by looking to see if you (your company) are doing what you SAY you are doing, then look at how it complies with any standard you're bound by. If it's all still going well at that point, you can move onto improvements!

An audit course would improve your understanding of the auditing process, plus you could get a colleague to go along at the same time (if possible).

Remember, you're not trying to catch people out during audits, just verifying processes and procedures:read:
Can I help with some comments/clarifications here?

Internal auditors should NOT be auditing to 'the standards' - they should audit the qms processes, documentation, objectives, performance etc.

The auditors job is not to 'second guess the direction the company has chosen with its documented system by comparison with the standard! It's too late for that and they will win no friends! It's also not the IAs job, IMHO, to start 're-engineering' the system as developed to find improvements, unless that is the stated purpose and scope of the internal auditor.

If I was to go to someone's house and start telling them, without prior agreement, planning, focus etc., that they needed to get a better way to cook, store food, or something similar I'll guarantee that they would NOT say "Thanks for all that great info, I'll jump on it and do it right away!"

I totally agree with your last two statements! Thanks for those!
 
Q

qualitymoron

#20
It's also not the IAs job, IMHO, to start 're-engineering' the system as developed to find improvements, unless that is the stated purpose and scope of the internal auditor.
If the purpose of audits isn't to find improvements, aren't they then just paying lip service to the requirement for auditing? I thought that was the driving force behind things like ISO9001 - continual improvement?

Crikey. I've never had such an offended response! More often than not, in my experience, when I've audited areas such as the shop floor, I've found that personnel have suggested improvements in the past (maybe informally) and nothing has changed. If these sorts of things get raised in audits at least it has been formally noted, even if a rigid system doesn't allow a change straight away. I wasn't suggesting that an internal auditor should take on the world and his mother:truce:
 
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