How to conduct internal audits?

G

gooofii

#31
What does your Manager mean?

Auditing against a documented procedure?
or
Auditing the procedure (the practice) itself?

Stijloor.
wel, auditing the processes itself of each procedure to guarantee that it meets our requirements which are all in the QM ... does that make sense:notme:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#32
Goofii:

I'm a little confused by your descriptions and it's making me feel bad about what you're trying to do. In your posts, I'm reading 'process of procedure' or similar. This makes me feel like you're confused over the fundamentals (just being honest with a fellow Brit).

In my world, it's either a process (inputs, outputs, controls etc.) or it's a procedure - which may be a part of a process (I just know, someone's going to say they're the same thing!).

Can you clarify?
 
G

gooofii

#33
I'm a little confused by your descriptions and it's making me feel bad about what you're trying to do. In your posts, I'm reading 'process of procedure' or similar. This makes me feel like you're confused over the fundamentals (just being honest with a fellow Brit).

In my world, it's either a process (inputs, outputs, controls etc.) or it's a procedure - which may be a part of a process (I just know, someone's going to say they're the same thing!).

Can you clarify?
well, I have different QAP Quality assurance procedures, each one has alot of processes , for example: Design&Development Procedure is detailed in the Flowchart to alot of processes like (product planning, Design input, Output,BOM, Prototype, product verification....etc...)
thts how i meant actually:notme:
does this make sense to you
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#34
Is this to be the first time these processes are being audited?

Has your organization yet registered to ISO 9001, and these are new processes?

If you are new to auditing and/or the processes are being audited for the first time, a gap analysis could be the right direction for you. They tend to be more thorough in nature, and ready-made checklists can guide you instead of your trying to think up what to ask. I did a search of attachments via the green Post Attachments List button in the header and came up with this list of gap analysis tools at your disposal.

I hope this helps!
 
#35
well, I have different QAP Quality assurance procedures, each one has alot of processes , for example: Design&Development Procedure is detailed in the Flowchart to alot of processes like (product planning, Design input, Output,BOM, Prototype, product verification....etc...)
thts how i meant actually:notme:
does this make sense to you
Not really, to be truthful!

Why not just call them processes? The D & D process, the D & D Planning process? The others you speak of seem to me not to be a 'process' per se. Design output (drawings, specs etc. isn't a process, BOM isn't a process!)

I'm really thinking there's a gap in fundamental understanding here. I'm not suggesting you're all 'hosed' here, just that in the Quality business we have to be sure (ourselves) what we're talking about, because others will screw things up - even the most fundamental ones - and you will end up with a mess.

A quick anecdote to demonstrate. My son (18) driving my truck calls after he'd had a puncture and changed the wheel. He says "how long's the alignment been off on the truck?" I freak out thinking he's hit some kerb or something! PANIC! He actually means the steering wheel isn't on 'straight' since I had the ball joints/tracking done!! Phew!

He didn't know what 'alignment' means - but it sounds good!
 
T

TQCon

#36
I've attached an "Internal Auditor Decision Tree" that hopefully makes sense to a new auditor trying to understand process auditing. Also, there's an example of a flow map which defines a company's key processes - by function. From these, audits can be assigned and turtles developed (if necessary) for each one. Please provide any constructive criticism. Thanks.

TQCon
 

Attachments

#38
I've attached an "Internal Auditor Decision Tree" that hopefully makes sense to a new auditor trying to understand process auditing. Also, there's an example of a flow map which defines a company's key processes - by function. From these, audits can be assigned and turtles developed (if necessary) for each one. Please provide any constructive criticism. Thanks.

TQCon
An interesting post and attachments. BTW welcome to the Cove!

Do you use any additional criteria to help auditors make some of these decisions? Some of them look mighty subjective to me and, as we know from the ISO 9001 requirements, auditors and the audit process is intended be be impartial and objective!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#39
An interesting post and attachments. BTW welcome to the Cove!

Do you use any additional criteria to help auditors make some of these decisions? Some of them look mighty subjective to me and, as we know from the ISO 9001 requirements, auditors and the audit process is intended be be impartial and objective!
What are you seeing as subjective?
 
#40
What are you seeing as subjective?
In the process flow there are a couple of 'decision diamonds' which ask 'should it be?' - without criteria this would be based on the auditor's opinion. For example 'should it be documented?' is an opinion, without reference to some criteria.

Having taken a second look(s) at the flow, I'd rather doubt if it would assist any newbie auditor.........it doesn't follow any process of understanding the criteria or scope of the audit to arrive at some of the conclusions being described? Also, asking an auditor to decide if a process should be measured is a bit 'late' isn't it? As I said - subjective!
 
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