How to Determine Mandays for Different Plants?

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#22
Thanks, Randy!

That is what I was getting at originally, when I posted that it's simply a case of observation and adjustment, based on the competencies of your own auditors, complexities of your own processes etc., rather than a table conjured up in a room for use by CB's who don't have access to the background information that you have, Ajit!
 

Sidney Vianna

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#23
The internal audits focus is on the organization's system so, in my experience and honest opinion, (I've given a great deal of thought to this very subject over many years as a consultant and trainer, BTW) using a CB's criteria for how long an audit will take is inappropriate.
I said that the size of the population should be considered when determining the number of internal audit days, because of the need for sample representativeness. That is auditing 101. If you have to interview 1 process owner and 6 process operators to determine if a process is implemented and effective, it obviously takes more time if the process owner is the sole process operator.
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#24
Internal audit? Take what time it takes for the audit to achieve whatever the objective is.

If the amount of time you have been using has been effective for you, then continue to march......

If the amount of time you have been using hasn't been giving you the results you need........change the time!

This ain't quantum mechanics we're talking about here.
For many organizations, the only reason to perform internal audits is to pass an external audit. For them, the objective of the internal audit is to do as little as possible and still pass the CB audit. The organization sees no value from internal audits. So, they will keep doing as little as possible. Is that the intent?
 

Stijloor

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#25
For many organizations, the only reason to perform internal audits is to pass an external audit. For them, the objective of the internal audit is to do as little as possible and still pass the CB audit. The organization sees no value from internal audits. So, they will keep doing as little as possible. Is that the intent?
:applause: :applause: :applause:

I asked a few times: "If Internal Audits were not required, would you still do them?" I let you all guess the response....

Stijloor.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#28
Are you saying Internal Audits are not required
Not sure how you misread Jan's post. He very clearly (and appropriately) stated that if internal audits were not a requirement of a standard the organization needs to demonstrate compliance with, they would not be performed, just like there would be no formal management reviews, design reviews, corrective actions, etc...
Pl do not start this approach as I will lose my job
I don't think anyone is suggesting anything about dropping requirements for internal audits. In my experience, however, the best way to protect one's job is to be perceived by top management as doing work that is recognized as valueable to the business. That is not different with internal audits. Management would even ask for more internal audits, if they perceived a benefit to the business, emanating from these audits.
 
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