How to Establish Simple and Efficient Procedures and Operating Instructions

Z

zerodefect

#1
It is not difficult that many organizations gain ISO certificate,but it is very difficult that to establish a efficient quality management system.Base on the facts I know,the most companyes only gain a card of certificate after they have passed ISO international certificate.why? how to establish a efficient quality management system?I look forward your reply that same efficient!:bigwave::mg:
 
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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: How to establish simple and efficient procedure or operating instructions?

It is not difficult that many organizations gain ISO certificate,but it is very difficult that to establish a efficient quality management system.Base on the facts I know,the most companyes only gain a card of certificate after they have passed ISO international certificate.why? how to establish a efficient quality management system?I look forward your reply that same efficient!:bigwave::mg:
Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave: Congratulations on your first post.

To your question:
Many here will understand and appreciate the unintended irony in your question. It is sad, but true that many organizations have obtained Certificates of Registration to an ISO Quality Management Standard, but remain inefficient, dysfunctional organizations.

In my own opinion, true business and operating efficiency requires these basic minimums
  1. a real desire by top managers and owners to create and maintain an efficient organization (the problem is many of these same managers and owners are so clueless, they don't even suspect what constitutes an efficient organization.)
  2. a plan (even aided by outside consultants) to create a system for running the operation
  3. continuing involvement and evaluation by owners and top managers to determine whether the plan is working or needs to be modified
  4. commitment by top managers and owners to make changes as needed to keep the organization running efficiently
  5. commitment by top managers and owners to meet customer requirements and expectations without consequently harming their own organization. (too many managers make the mistake of underpricing their goods and services in an effort to please customers, only to find they are unable to sustain and grow their own organization because there isn't enough profit without "cheating" on some aspect of the operation (underpaid employees, shoddy quality of products, etc.)
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: How to establish simple and efficient procedure or operating instructions?

Interesting question, indeed.

A quality management system is part of an organization. Saying, it is one piece that needs to fit with all the other pieces. Does the organization have a strategy and vision? Are they supported by upper management?

You say OK- yes we have that. Then develop a QMS that enhances and strengthens that strategy and vision; not that runs against it.

Many QMS are implemented in such a way that it's an afterthought; an adder; and not a functional part of the business.
 
Q

QC Kid

#4
Re: How to establish simple and efficient procedure or operating instructions?

Hi all.

I am currently in charge of the AS9100B certification process where I work. Ironically, just today I held a meeting with Purchasing, Contracts, and Repair department managers. I did a quick overview of the AS9100B Standard and then went right to procedures starting with RFQs. Several months prior to this I retrieved all procedures so that no procedures were available. They went about their work as normal and as they seen fit. Well, today when I asked the Contracts manager to describe the RFQ inputs-process-outputs a very interseting thing happened. He had written a new procedure all from memory. In fact, the Contracts manager wrote the procedure entirely himself. Then I read to them the procedure that was documented and showed that the Contracts department was not even mentioned. I found this to be constructive and amusing as did the others.
 

tony wardle

Registered Visitor
#5
Re: How to establish simple and efficient procedure or operating instructions?

Great - you have a certificate. This tells me that on the day of the audit, you were doing what you system said you were doing. If you were making rubbish, at least you were doing it consistently. The next step is towards effectiveness and efficiency. Have a look at how you do things. Re-write the procedure in a flow diagram format. This is an easy to understand document, and removes possible interpretation problems. If you want some rules on this - I am sure you will find these on the Cove.
Run the flow - and as sure as my mother in law is ugly - you will run into problems. Find the root cause and change your procedures to either error proof or make the way you do things more robust. In so doing, you will add value by making less scrap / rework. Once this seems to be working - rationalise - make simpler - add more value by working smarter - problems come along - error proof and re-engineer the process to iron out the problems and so on.
In the grand scheme of things - the certificate is nice to have - the reason for business is to make money in the quickest most efficient manner possible. And I say again - IMHO - flow diagrams are the easiest most effective tool to document the "how we make money":agree:.
 
Z

zerodefect

#6
Re: How to establish simple and efficient procedure or operating instructions?

Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave: Congratulations on your first post.

To your question:
Many here will understand and appreciate the unintended irony in your question. It is sad, but true that many organizations have obtained Certificates of Registration to an ISO Quality Management Standard, but remain inefficient, dysfunctional organizations.

In my own opinion, true business and operating efficiency requires these basic minimums
  1. a real desire by top managers and owners to create and maintain an efficient organization (the problem is many of these same managers and owners are so clueless, they don't even suspect what constitutes an efficient organization.)
  2. a plan (even aided by outside consultants) to create a system for running the operation
  3. continuing involvement and evaluation by owners and top managers to determine whether the plan is working or needs to be modified
  4. commitment by top managers and owners to make changes as needed to keep the organization running efficiently
  5. commitment by top managers and owners to meet customer requirements and expectations without consequently harming their own organization. (too many managers make the mistake of underpricing their goods and services in an effort to please customers, only to find they are unable to sustain and grow their own organization because there isn't enough profit without "cheating" on some aspect of the operation (underpaid employees, shoddy quality of products, etc.)
Thank your sincerelly reply!
The question we know is the many organization's QMS don't having achieved the efficiency that we wish.Why?Why?Why?Why? If the facts is higher than theory,then we can say the ISO 9000 and TS/16949 family standards or ISO organization has many defects itself.But we also the ISO theory and methodology is very advanced.The main question is how to practice,do you think so?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

Benjamin28

#7
Re: How to Establish Simple and Efficient Procedures and Operating Instructions?

Certainly an interesting question. I think ISO or other certifications are expected to produce results which are beyond their scope. Meaning that ISO certification in most cases will ensure that you're doing a minimum number of required quality processes to satisfy the standard. ISO or other systems can offer a functional, proven structure for your quality management system, but I don't think it should be considered the A++ of quality systems. It requires continual effort and management specific to your processes and business to create an A++ quality management system. This depends greatly on your people and processes, how well does management perform, how interested is the culture, is quality really priority or is it all about satisfying some industry requirements?

As to the question, how can you achieve efficiency...I like to tackle this question from a different angle and ask, what is preventing us from achieving best efficiency. Identifying weakness is the first step in improvement and there are many different methods to get that information and take action on it.

Probably the biggest barrier to organizations which have not gained a good quality system through certification is upper management. There is a need, however, for all staff to be involved in the quality system, aware of their contribution, and actively contributing. A good quality management system will never succeed unless it's backed by management, the culture is involved and contributing, and you monitor performance and improve on weakness/error. For this reason I think it's very easy to satisfy the requirements of a quality standard checklist and audit and get your certification but still be grossly disfunctional as a business entity.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
In homage to the musical "My Fair Lady" -
By Jove! I think Benjamin28 has got it!

The shortcoming is not in the Standard, but in the way a top manager views achieving registration to one of the Quality Management System Standards.

A top manager with a "shortcut" mentality recognizes the third party auditing system is easily "gamed" or corrupted and makes a short term decision (usually to appease a present or prospective customer) to create an "appearance" of compliance to obtain the certificate of registration. There are many consultants and a few third party registrars who put the fee above the ethics and willingly collude, either actively or by turning a blind eye to obvious discrepancies, in the rush or "fast" to obtain the certificate of registration.

Some consultants who have the technical knowledge to do the "right thing" even take pride in skirting the slow and steady, but sure, path to operating efficiency complying with a QMS Standard by openly advertising with phrases like "40 days to ISO registration."

Some of the companies who use such consultants are even pretty good companies who just don't see any real value in creating their own documents when they can have (for a price) a complete set of documents to show to an auditor (even though those documents are just for "show" and have no real relationship to how the organization operates.)

Understand that every company which takes the "fast" path is not necessarily evil and hopelessly dysfunctional, merely that they only value the certificate for its ability to placate present or prospective customers.

It is really only a small minority of organizations taking the "fast" path which are hopelessly dysfunctional, led by incompetent managers who are the victims of fast-talking charlatans who help them obtain certificates of registration for organizations which are train wrecks waiting to happen.
 
Z

zerodefect

#9
In homage to the musical "My Fair Lady" -
By Jove! I think Benjamin28 has got it!

The shortcoming is not in the Standard, but in the way a top manager views achieving registration to one of the Quality Management System Standards.

A top manager with a "shortcut" mentality recognizes the third party auditing system is easily "gamed" or corrupted and makes a short term decision (usually to appease a present or prospective customer) to create an "appearance" of compliance to obtain the certificate of registration. There are many consultants and a few third party registrars who put the fee above the ethics and willingly collude, either actively or by turning a blind eye to obvious discrepancies, in the rush or "fast" to obtain the certificate of registration.

Some consultants who have the technical knowledge to do the "right thing" even take pride in skirting the slow and steady, but sure, path to operating efficiency complying with a QMS Standard by openly advertising with phrases like "40 days to ISO registration."

Some of the companies who use such consultants are even pretty good companies who just don't see any real value in creating their own documents when they can have (for a price) a complete set of documents to show to an auditor (even though those documents are just for "show" and have no real relationship to how the organization operates.)

Understand that every company which takes the "fast" path is not necessarily evil and hopelessly dysfunctional, merely that they only value the certificate for its ability to placate present or prospective customers.

It is really only a small minority of organizations taking the "fast" path which are hopelessly dysfunctional, led by incompetent managers who are the victims of fast-talking charlatans who help them obtain certificates of registration for organizations which are train wrecks waiting to happen.
Dear Sir! Your minds are true and give me some benefits.Thanks!
We know it is very important that gainted the top manager's understand and assistance. But this is generally a question that how to make top manager understand ISO.The many owner of company in only a businessmen,not a competent chief executive officer,there is profite in their heart for short term.Will you tell me how to do on it ?
Thanks!:rolleyes:
 
Z

zerodefect

#10
Re: How to Establish Simple and Efficient Procedures and Operating Instructions?

Certainly an interesting question. I think ISO or other certifications are expected to produce results which are beyond their scope. Meaning that ISO certification in most cases will ensure that you're doing a minimum number of required quality processes to satisfy the standard. ISO or other systems can offer a functional, proven structure for your quality management system, but I don't think it should be considered the A++ of quality systems. It requires continual effort and management specific to your processes and business to create an A++ quality management system. This depends greatly on your people and processes, how well does management perform, how interested is the culture, is quality really priority or is it all about satisfying some industry requirements?

As to the question, how can you achieve efficiency...I like to tackle this question from a different angle and ask, what is preventing us from achieving best efficiency. Identifying weakness is the first step in improvement and there are many different methods to get that information and take action on it.

Probably the biggest barrier to organizations which have not gained a good quality system through certification is upper management. There is a need, however, for all staff to be involved in the quality system, aware of their contribution, and actively contributing. A good quality management system will never succeed unless it's backed by management, the culture is involved and contributing, and you monitor performance and improve on weakness/error. For this reason I think it's very easy to satisfy the requirements of a quality standard checklist and audit and get your certification but still be grossly disfunctional as a business entity.
Dear Sir! It is very good that"...will never succeed unless it's backed by management" you above said.It is a basic and necessary condition to create a efficient QMS. it is very important that gainted the top manager's understand and assistance. But this is generally a question that how to make top manager understand ISO.The many owner of company in only a businessmen,not a competent chief executive officer,there is profite in their heart for short term.Will you tell me how to do on it ?
Thanks!:rolleyes:
 
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