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How to Identify "Observation" in Internal Audits?

R

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
#11
I had the same request of me also during a registration audit. The auditor wants me to define a major, minor and observation in my internal audit procedure. I think this is another case of dancing like a monkey for the auditor and I'm getting fed up with it. Do I not pay his salary for the audit?!?!
 
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A

AndyN

Moved On
#12
#12
RCW said:
I had the same request of me also during a registration audit. The auditor wants me to define a major, minor and observation in my internal audit procedure. I think this is another case of dancing like a monkey for the auditor and I'm getting fed up with it. Do I not pay his salary for the audit?!?!
Click to expand...
Can I ask what you did in response?
 
R

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
#15
AndyN said:
Seriously? Are you going to push it back...?
Click to expand...
Probably not as it's a quick procedure mod. I already had a couple of verbal disputes with this auditor during the audit. I likely will be looking for another registar as this auditor replaced another auditor (same registrar) I had problems with.
 
John Broomfield

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
#16
RCW,

Remove the word Observation from your internal audit procedure and from your corrective action form.

Years ago ISO 19011 replaced this widely misused word with Finding (a statement of fact (good or bad) from the audit).

Refuse to toe any line drawn by an auditor unless the requirement comes from a legitimate source.

The auditor is not a legitimate source of requirements.

Once you start toeing their invented line the auditor will get worse.

So, warn your auditor not to provide any advice or invent any requirements as a basis for his or her reports otherwise you will ask their employer never to send them to you again.

Change the relationship so the auditor is convinced that you know what you are doing and you are not prepared to be pushed around.

What a stupid waste of time! :mad:

John
 
Last edited:
R

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#18
#18
John Broomfield said:
RCW,
Years ago ISO 19011 replaced this widely misused word with Finding (a statement of fact (good or bad) from the audit).
Click to expand...
Interesting that you bring this up. My experience with auditors has led to a "finding" as being bad (aka nonconformity). I've never heard it used as a good annotation.
 
Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#19
#19
RCW said:
Interesting that you bring this up. My experience with auditors has led to a "finding" as being bad (aka nonconformity). I've never heard it used as a good annotation.
Click to expand...
I go immediately into correction mode if "finding" is mis-used in my training classes and I've actually corrected (privately) some folks I work with.

"I have a finding"...."Great! What type of finding is it?":frust:
 
John Broomfield

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#20
#20
RCW said:
Interesting that you bring this up. My experience with auditors has led to a "finding" as being bad (aka nonconformity). I've never heard it used as a good annotation.
Click to expand...
RCW,

Is this yet more evidence of another poorly trained auditor or an auditor who stopped learning years ago?

Keeping up to date on terminology is an obligation for any professional (CPD).

...especially if we are expected to explain the subject matter or rely on uniform understanding of the applicable terms. :read:

John

PS, here is the definition of finding in full from ISO 19011 (equivalent to 3.9.5 in ISO 9000):

3.4
audit findings
results of the evaluation of the collected audit evidence (3.3) against audit criteria (3.2)

NOTE Audit findings can indicate either conformity or nonconformity with audit criteria or opportunities for improvement.
 
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