How to identify the processes needed for quality management system

[Peter West]

I would probably advise you look into getting a course to assist with the implementation. That way you will be clear not just on this but on any other issues which could pop up. Then you will have firm sound knowledge and experience for the next time.

 

[blue moon]

Dear Tech4Arab,

only the MANAGEMENT SYSTEM PROCESSES...

The Standard says:
a) identify the processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the organization (see 1.2)
b) determine the sequence and interaction of these processes;​

Dear Sir

ok i think you are right but please help me , what is the meaning of Management system process



thanks for every one help me

 

[John Broomfield]

Dear Sir

ok i think you are right but please help me , what is the meaning of Management system process



thanks for every one help me

We have seen so many quotes of ISO 9001:2000 as misquotes of ISO 9001:2008. Here is what the 2008 version of ISO 9001 requires:

"4.1 General requirements
The organization shall establish, document, implement and maintain a quality management system and continually improve its effectiveness in accordance with the requirements of this International Standard.

The organization shall
a) determine the processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the organization (see 1.2),

b) determine the sequence and interaction of these processes,"


The processes needed for your management system are largely specified by ISO 9001 but they have yet to be determined by you for your company. I recommend that you focus your system on your company's core process for converting customer needs into cash.

ISO defines "process" as a set of interrelated or interacting activities that transform inputs into outputs. "Activities" are within processes not instead of processes. Activities are sub-processes or tasks within a process.

Three process terms are useful for you to develop and document your process-based management system:

Core Process

This is the large process that begins with identifying customer needs and ends with receiving payment. For example: Marketing > Selling > Designing > Producing > Storing > Delivering > Invoicing. Each company's core process includes key processes (see below).

Support Processes

These are essential for maintaining the core process. For example: corporate planning, recruiting, training, filing, archiving, auditing and purchasing.

Usually support processes include some processes that do not need to be defined and other processes that benefit the business by being defined within a computer system or on paper. These also include key processes (see below).

Key Processes

A key process benefits the organization by being analyzed and defined on paper or within a computer system. To determine what is a key process be guided by what is in system standards or models like ISO 9001 or ISO 14001 and by what is vital to the success of the business.

All processes described above are also "quality management system processes" because it is whatever your company does to deliver, assure and improve quality.

Refer to clause 2.3 of ISO 9000:2005 for confirmation of these fundamentals.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Simple!

1. List activities within your organization.
2. Determine in what sequence they are utilized.
3. Draw a picture/map of it.
4. Done!

Classifying processes may be helpful, but is NOT required.
Keep it as simple as possible.

Stijloor.

I'm having a heck of a time at the moment reacting to posts on the cove - not sure if this is a good or bad thing - I'll wait for the response before deciding.:truce:

Why does everyone try to over simplify the requirements in clause 4.1. Individually the requirements are simple - that does not mean they are easy to meet and the process to get to satisfying the requirement can (and probably should) be very involved (and even complex).

Below is an excerpt from an article I wrote for The Auditor magazine. I'm not sure if it has been published - anyone get a copy?

2. Identifying processes

Apart from the general requirement to implement a management system the first line in the requirements section of the standard simply requires the organization to: “identify the processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the organization”

So what does it mean?

Firstly let’s look at what it doesn’t mean. It does not mean that all procedures documented in the dim and distant days of ISO 9001.1994 are magically processes – that over simplifies the requirement and misunderstands the sea change behind the structure and purpose of the standard reissued in 2000. So this should mean that there is a lot of work involved in organizations looking afresh at their activities and redefining how their quality management system works. If you belong to an organization that still considers procedures as processes not only have you not captured the spirit of the new approach but you should be picked up by your customers and other assessment organizations as not meeting the requirements of clause 4.1.1. The fact that more non compliances haven’t been raised against organizations says a lot about the state of third party certification and its economic need to survive, perhaps by retaining paying customers who don’t actually deserve to hold certification.

If we are to realize the benefits of a process approach as a first step we have to recognize ISO 9001.2000 is now a business standard in all but name. There is still a fundamental focus on quality and satisfying customer requirements but in the overall context of the organization’s business. By contrast other standards and requirement documents focus on other areas of the business – such as ISO 14001.2004 (environmental management), accounting rules / legislation (financial management).

So if the organization has a process that captures customer orders and ends up delivering their product then that is what should be captured and identified as one of the organization’s processes – cutting across departmental silos as it does. It might be easier for an organization to break its processes down into bite size chunks (perhaps those previously covered by departmental processes) but that misses the whole point and ends up adding no value. Benefits of identifying processes as end to end (ideally beginning and ending with a customer) are:

• Clear demonstration of the end customer and their needs
• Clarification of an individual’s role in working with others both in his / her department and upstream / downstream – again with the customer needs in mind
• Highlight areas that are busy doing work but that aren’t aligned with those core processes delivering value to the organization.

There are similarities here with the approach of the “Lean” fraternity in identifying value added and non value added work (this continues into the next sections of this article – this is far more valuable than the “wash and brush up” where organizations realigned their quality management system – perhaps even to the new clause structure of the revised standard – without adopting the spirit of the change.

 

[Stijloor]

I'm having a heck of a time at the moment reacting to posts on the cove - not sure if this is a good or bad thing - I'll wait for the response before deciding.:truce:

Why does everyone try to over simplify the requirements in clause 4.1. Individually the requirements are simple - that does not mean they are easy to meet and the process to get to satisfying the requirement can (and probably should) be very involved (and even complex).

Paul,

Thank you for your great post and comments.

You know me long enough that I would never "trivialize" the intent of the ISO 9001 requirements. But what often irritates me is that folks are more worried about producing documents to show that they met the 4.1 requirements as opposed to taking a hard look at what processes are necessary to meet the needs and expectations of the customer and realizing a profit. Often, most of the processes needed are already there, but not recognized as such. Yes, I am in the lean crowd. I believe in simplicity and userfriendliness. I have seen too much artwork representing activities that still produced crap.

Sorry Paul, I ate too much turkey yesterday.

Stijloor.

 

[Paul Simpson]

You know me long enough that I would never "trivialize" the intent of the ISO 9001 requirements. But what often irritates me is that folks are more worried about producing documents to show that they met the 4.1 requirements as opposed to taking a hard look at what processes are necessary to meet the needs and expectations of the customer and realizing a profit.

Absolutely - to everything! Yes I know you to be a thoughtful poster and, I presume, implementer of quality systems, Stijloor. I only picked up on your post as it laid out the 4 step process (much in the way clause 4.1 breaks the process approach down into a few bullets.

Often, most of the processes needed are already there, but not recognized as such. Yes, I am in the lean crowd. I believe in simplicity and userfriendliness. I have seen too much artwork representing activities that still produced crap.

Agreed again. My vision of the future of the quality professional is that we become systems analysts in the true sense of the word (before the IT crowd hijacked the terms and devalued it to a sales / checklist role). We become the people selected by the MD / CEO (unless we hold those positions ourselves ) to look at how the organization is working and help to improve it so that it works the way we (and the bosses) believe it should.

Sorry Paul, I ate too much turkey yesterday.

Stijloor.

Belated happy Thanksgiving to all in the US and Canada. I must admit I never understood what it was all about until yesterday - thank you, Wiki!

 

[Marc]

Read the Guidance on the concept and use of the process approach for management systems. If you still can't figure it out, time to consider outsourcing the process required to identify the processes that comprise the QMS. In that case, must read Guidance on 'Outsourced processes'

NOTE: The two links in this post are old and "broken so they are no longer "live links" in this post.

Old thread, old post. If anyone has current link(s), please let us know. This is still a very common question/topic.