How to Prove and Explain to Consultant (Internal Auditor) and Manager?

D

dr0mbu1

#1
hello all,
how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager what:

1.consultant(internal auditor) should to warn about internal audit
2.internal auditor must to inform me during the audit
3.internal auditor must to told me in advance or topics would be audited
4.auditor must cover all of the audit results with you before issuing the final report.

thanks
 
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Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager? i tired

Hi dr0mbu1

Sorry didinot quite understand your question. Can you pl rephrase it ?

I didnt quite understand your position - are you an employee or an external consultant to that organization ? :confused:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager? i tired

hello all,
how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager what:

1.consultant(internal auditor) should to warn about internal audit
2.internal auditor must to inform me during the audit
3.internal auditor must to told me in advance or topics would be audited
4.auditor must cover all of the audit results with you before issuing the final report.

thanks
Am I correct to assume that the consultant is hired to conduct internal audits at your organization? If this is the case then the consultant/internal auditor should comply with the internal audit procedure established by your organization.

In a good audit program the consultant/internal auditor should:
  • Adhere to the organization's internal audit schedule so there would be no surprises.
  • Inform the auditee about any nonconformities.
  • Submit an audit schedule prior to the audit.
  • Report the audit results per your organization's audit procedure.
You should discuss the audit program and all pertinent details with all parties involved prior to conducting the audit to prevent problems.

An excellent document to assist you is ANSI/ISO/ASQ QE19011S-2004 "Guidelines for quality and/or environmental management systems auditing - U.S. Version with supplemental guidance added." This document is based on ISO 19011.

I hope this helps.

Stijloor.
 
D

dr0mbu1

#4
Re: how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager? i tired

Hi dr0mbu1

Sorry didinot quite understand your question. Can you pl rephrase it ?

I didnt quite understand your position - are you an employee or an external consultant to that organization ? :confused:
i am an employee, QC.
 
C

CliffK

#5
Re: How to Prove and Explain to Consultant (Internal Auditor) and Manager? I tired

dr0mbu1,

From your initial post, it sounds like you were audited without advance notice, the auditor failed to tell you the audit status, and you were not told of negative findings before the audit report was given to your manager.

For yourself, you probably have to live with what occurred.

For the organization, you can point out that this kind of behavior from an auditor makes people uncooperative so that they undermine and subvert the audit program. Problems or potential problems will not be detected.

A successful internal audit program requires trust, which comes from openness and honesty on the part of all participants.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Re: How to Prove and Explain to Consultant (Internal Auditor) and Manager? I tired

hello all,
how to prove,to explain to consultant(internal auditor) and manager what:

1.consultant(internal auditor) should to warn about internal audit
2.internal auditor must to inform me during the audit
3.internal auditor must to told me in advance or topics would be audited
4.auditor must cover all of the audit results with you before issuing the final report.

thanks
I think I see the situation. dr0mbu1 works as an employee at a company and would like an idea of what the ideal relationship should be between the employee (or manager) whose area is being audited and a paid consultant doing internal auditing for the company where the employee works. Many of you readers may have other ideas, but I think the following might be a good start.

1.consultant(internal auditor) should to warn about internal audit
Yep. I think it is common courtesy to schedule the audit in advance and let EVERYONE know the schedule. No one is on vacation without having someone to replace him. Work which would keep folks from being able to deal with auditor may be rescheduled. This way, auditor doesn't stand around waiting for someone to show him things he wants to see or answer questions he wants to ask and crucial work is not delayed while auditor performs an audit.

2.internal auditor must to inform me during the audit
If you are the employee or the manager/supervisor, you have a right to know who the stranger lurking and snooping around your area is and what he's looking for.

3.internal auditor must to told me in advance or topics would be audited
This one is a little less cut and dried. The employee or supervisor whose area is being audited has a duty to have EVERYTHING ready to be audited. This means
  • documents normally expected to be available at or easily accessible to a work station are there (the boss's job!)
It means the employee working at a station should know, at a minimum,
  • where the goods or material he works on come from [the previous step in production], how he assures the goods or material are suitable for him to work on,
  • how he is supposed to handle the situation when he comes across nonconforming product before, during, or after he works on it,
  • what he is supposed to do with or to the product to prepare it for the next step in production and how he knows that [follow written or verbal order or a blueprint?]
  • where the product he works on goes next [the next step in production],
  • who he should go to if he has a problem he can't handle and if he has power to stop production until his question is resolved.
Sometimes, especially in internal audits, it is a matter of efficiency to target only parts of the full list of things which should be happening at a work area. Many auditors like to emphasize they are looking for how well corrective action is proceeding on a previously reported nonconformance. These same auditors may recognize the importance of having accurate, up-to-date work instructions and customer specifications and will alert everyone that such documents will CERTAINLY be under scrutiny in addition to other items.

4.auditor must cover all of the audit results with you before issuing the final report.
Yes! This is absolutely crucial. Sometimes auditors misinterpret what they observe and it helps to clear the air. Sometimes the person whose area is being audited is not exactly clear about what he is doing or why he is doing it, even if he is doing it correctly. At the very least, the person whose area is under consideration and his supervisor should be present when that area of the audit is discussed prior to writing the final report.

One thing I want to emphasize: any audit is of the PROCESS, not the individuals performing the work. If the process is found to be nonconforming, we hope the auditor will not play the blame game, but will call attention to the fact the process needs to be corrected, not the individual.

Any of our other readers have comments? I'd like to hear especially from independent folks who are paid to perform an internal audit at someone else's organization (not a third party registrar from an accredited body.)

What do YOU tell the auditees in advance? Who all is attending at the closing conference if you are presenting nonconformances?
 
Last edited:
D

dr0mbu1

#7
Re: How to Prove and Explain to Consultant (Internal Auditor) and Manager? I tired

thanks to all of you :thanx:

Wes Bucey thank you very much:thanx:.


One thing I want to emphasize: any audit is of the PROCESS, not the individuals performing the work. If the process is found to be nonconforming, we hope the auditor will not play the blame game, but will call attention to the fact the process needs to be corrected, not the individual.
Right now my consultant(internal auditor) play the blame game and blame me for nonconforming.
 
E

Elynn

#8
Re: How to Prove and Explain to Consultant (Internal Auditor) and Manager? I tired

Right now my consultant(internal auditor) play the blame game and blame me for nonconforming.
My employees do 'mess' in an audit as the processes thought to be the 'best' are not practical .
At the end of the day, the accountability falls back to the Management. Employees may be responsible for making sure processes passed down work as they are the 'lead actor' in the field. But as a Manager, creating the "best' process that doesn't fit practically is useless.

A proper IA should be scheduled and prepared for. Despite that, employees should be at all times ready for Audits with what processes they are practicing. Else, N.C. will be definite
 
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