How to Retrofit an old, manual CMM

J
#1
Good Morning all,

Not sure if this is the best place to post this...but here goes....

OK. We have an old CMM. A Mitutoyo B231 Manual machine. It's been an excellent machine over the years - great for quick "Grab it and go" measures. Highly useful.
Also, I must admit that I have a soft spot for the machine since it's the first and only one I've ever used.....;)

Anyway - lately it has started to malfunction. It appears that the Scales and readers are OK, but the old mother board and MAG reader etc are starting to go bad. We are making this assessment based on what our service tech has been able to ascertain.
There has been discussion about just replacing it with a second DNC CMM....but frankly I like the idea of having a manual machine around.

The assumption I think is that if we look into doing a retrofit, the cost will be prohibitive....better to just buy another one.

But I (being stubborn) have to think that the components are likely readily available "off the shelf" to read X,Y, and Z. After all, one can go on the internet and buy everything they need to build their own CNC router (I know because I did it.:D). After that it is all a matter of software....

So that is my query....Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing?
Can it be Done? Are components available?
I don't mean just old used B231 parts...but new off the shelf "after-market" items. (Mitutoyo doesn't make these anymore)

Thoughts?

James
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
I

iamtroll

#2
I have had several CMMs retrofit, although it was quite a while ago. I found that it was definitely a cost saving at the time and I was able to find several companies that specialized in it. There was plenty of hardware options and you could choose from different software packages depending on whether you wanted to go with a main line CMM company software or there were replacement software packages from refit companies. What I did, was choose software that matched my newer machines to reduce the downtime in training my inspectors and operators on the new software. I was very satisfied with the result both in cost and in the performance of the upgraded machines. Hope this helps.
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#3
It really depends on the type of work your CMM measures.

Does it check one part or is it used to check a batch?

What are the tolerances of the part(s) being measured?

What is the technical compliance of those who would use it?


A DCC type machine is very good at removing the following:
Operator error, either not checking a part correctly or mis-probing a part.
Checking difficult to get to features
Measuring consistently (no shanking, consistent probe speeds, hitting part in the exact spot required).
Speed of measuring the same batch of parts (measuring 10 parts in a row for example).

A manual machine is good for:
Quick location and size measurements for 1 or 2 parts per setup.
Easier learning curve


Currently I use a CMM that can do both DCC and Manual measurements (I believe most CMMs can do this). I do find .0002-.0008 measurement differences between me running manual and having the machine run the exact same part in DCC mode (the machine I run is programmed by manually touching off the part).
 
J
#4
We have a DCC machine so this machine is used more for quick and mostly pretty basic measures.

Tolerances are generally not all that tight. +/-.005 and up are quite common. Tighter than that are fairly rare.

That is why I am wondering whether there is a fairly inexpensive retrofit is out there. We don't really need it to do anything all that fancy - but with things like new "Microhites" running into the 6K range (for basically one axis) I thought this other option would be worth looking into.

That said - it appears that what I am asking is not a very common approach

James
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#5
We also have an older CMM that we were thinking of retro-fitting but after the true cost of upgrading came about, we decided it would be allot less expensive to just by a new machine. We probably had a rare instance in this but the following items decided us:

  • We needed to replace the controller board. A new board was quoted at about $7,000
  • The new board would not work with the software we currently use (it was very old software) so new software would need to be bought at about $12,000.
  • The probe head is/was 15 years old and was recommended to be replaced at $6,000.

So, it would be about $25,000 to retrofit the CMM (still be fully manual) or we could buy a DCC for about $35,000.

My prices are from memory 2 years old so may be incorrect, I do remember it being $25,000


Granted, the manual is 36 x 24 x 24 and the new DCC is 12 x 12 x 10 but our parts are not that big. In our case, it was a cost vs. cost analysis. I was also under the impression that the prices were inflated (this was just an impression) because it was still 1/2 the price of the new model the guy who quoted the repair was trying to sell us (we bought the new one from a different manufacture).
 

greif

Involved In Discussions
#6
Just made some notes yesterday, from another forum about updating a manual Numerex that I have. Some of these may be useful:

-------------------------------------
On manual CMM's OTOH, you can retrofit to a Metronics ND1400

Quadra-Chek DRO Overview http://www.metronics.com/dro-overview.html

-------------------6/2011
Got the price today from a Heidenhain distributor. $7,000 gets you CMM manager software, a scale interface kit, and installation. You provide a PC to run it on. The alternative is the NV1400 unit, for a few hundred less, but less powerful and more difficult to use.
A good forum is: CMM Talk . Haven?t been there for a few years but there was a lot of knowledgeable people there. http://www.cmmtalk.com/welcome.htm



http://wenzelamerica.com/services/used/used-cmm

metromec software? http://www.metromec.ch/en/
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
F Retrofitting Medical Devices - Who is the Manufacturer after the Retrofit? EU Medical Device Regulations 12
I Old Time Scatter diagrams for defect type and location- software Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3
C Refreshing an old and boring topic - Job descriptions and Roles vs Process Documentation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 38
Q Old products new class - Dental Devices - Choosing tests EU Medical Device Regulations 2
K Old medical devices -> 7.3.7. Design and development validation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
M Interesting Discussion Curious old drawings about electrical shock and safety IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 1
Marc Interesting Discussion The periodic table is 150 years old - March 2019 Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 3
Marc Old Registered Visitors "Pruned" from the Database - 20180916 Forum News and General Information 0
Marc 200-year-old museum in Rio de Janeiro Destroyed by Fire - 2 SEPT 2018 World News 2
C Document Control - old revision vs new revision Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 22
Marc Adventures in Design Quality Assurance - Two-week-old Pixel 2 XL displays World News 0
A Training Program Help - Old docs, new docs, so many docs... ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
K Canada License Amendment - Old Product to New Product Canada Medical Device Regulations 2
B Old GD&T Symbol "~" Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
L Sources for Searching Old Electronic Parts Specs (Counterfeit Inspection) Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 3
Q Modifying an old printed record? ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
G Customer wants PPAP on Old Parts to New Standards APQP and PPAP 8
A Technical File Maintenance - Old generation product EU Medical Device Regulations 4
A PUWER (Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations) and old machines (UK rules) Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 4
E I'm looking for old publications of European Quality in pdf Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 2
C Upgrading an old Supermicrometer General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
S Old Medical Device Software Submission Guidance from 1998 Other US Medical Device Regulations 8
G Not quite old news: Statement of Applicability IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 3
R IMDS time frame submission for a very old product APQP and PPAP 1
M Old software and EN 62304 - ECG software for the display of ECG IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 2
W Where to find the Daimler DBL 6992 10 new (old) standard Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
P Performance Qualification of old Rapid Mixer Granulator Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 2
Q IQ Requirements for Old (10 yrs) Commissioned Equipment Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 2
R Covegratulations to The Cove: 18 years old! Covegratulations 3
N FDA Aspects - No Improvements to 12 Year Old Software ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
T Software that will overlay Old Revision and New Revision Print and Compare Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
M Old MSDS Sheets vs new HCS Standard - Format Requirements Manufacturing and Related Processes 18
H Digging Up Bones - Inspector Retrieving Very Old Inspection Data Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
V Old 510(k) with no Indication Statement 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
K Retrospective DHF for an old non-registered device 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 3
F Receiving a new Gage Block Set with an old Certificate Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Randy Looky here - Check out my 9-month old Great-Grandson Hayden Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 4
G Help with an old Spectrum 1000BX FTIR unit - User Manual wanted Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
M AS9100A (old revision) - Required C=0 sampling plans if sampling was used? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Using Curve Fits and Predictions in place of good old Measurements General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
N What to do about very old MSDS Sheets Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 24
C Hazards of Old Electronics Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 9
D Registrar Requesting Copies of Old Documents AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
V We put Old plating spec on supplier prints and need to PPAP to Customer. APQP and PPAP 1
G Old Medical Device Equipment - Compliance with New or Old Standard - What to do? Other Medical Device Related Standards 3
R PPAP requests for old parts that pre-date your PPAP Process APQP and PPAP 2
N Company Name Change - Existing Inventory with Old Company Name Other US Medical Device Regulations 9
Antonio Vieira Do you still keep old numbers of Quality Progress in paper format? ASQ, ANAB, UKAS, IAF, IRCA, Exemplar Global and Related Organizations 9
Roberticus Customer Returned "Old" Non-Medical Parts ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
P What do you do when a family pet is dying from old age? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 19

Similar threads

Top Bottom