How to SHOW the importance of checklists, through some team gaming or play?

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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
our main problem is with trucks and heavy machinery (motorgrades, bulldozers, excavators) maintenance.

drivers and operators should check several items BEFORE starting using the equipment at any day.

unlike in a factory, this kind of equipment finds different conditions and workloads every single day. So while there is preventive maintenance based on hours operated, find little faults BEFORE starting the workday, then calling maintenance team, can reduce problems, or the size of problems...

...we have indications of several problems that PROBABLY would have been found by a proper checklist following, before they became worse problems.
Can you state, in one sentence, the chronic problem that you're trying to solve?
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
It seems that you are trying to show your colleagues the importance of your checklists (from the We Know Best Department).

How about starting with the operators and a blank sheet of paper; asking them collectively what they actually check before and after each operation/shift. Invite them to justify and discuss the need for each check and record the results of this discussion in an upgraded checklist - their checklist.

Ownership is a wonderful thing.
 

Scanton

Wearer of many hats
#14
Genuinely, thanks for the reminder John Broomfield.

I create my checklists in conjunction with the people responsible for the thing being checked. So when I create a checklist to record the status of a machine i.e. oil levels, filter conditions, interlock status etc. I do so with the involvement of the machine setters and maintenance, and operators even though the machine operator will be doing most of the checking.

Like in my example, the employee on the evening shift in the sterilisation department may not know what surgical instruments and in what quantity are required for open heart surgery, however I would expect them (after a little training) to be able to follow a checklist created people who do, and also understand the importance of doing so.

In a previous role when I managed a new department and inherited checklists that were very time consuming, had not changed in decades and who’s value was repeatedly questioned by the people filling them out, I laid on a “free lunch” once a week at midday and invited everyone involved from Technology, Maintenance, Quality, Production and half a dozen key operators to attend a meeting for 1 hour to go through these checklists and identify what was important and what was not, what was relevant and what was not. After a month of these meetings I created the new checklists on the back of what we had all learned that had 75% of what the old checklists had. The check frequencies were increased on some items reduced on others, however the completion rate was now 100% and stayed like that for the two years I managed that department and 5 years after I left the department, right up until I left the company. Who knows what happened after that.

So there is another example of there being no such thing as a “free lunch”, they didn’t have to pay for the food but they did have to work for it :)
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#15
If it was me, I'd show 2 or 3 "Air Crash Investigations" episodes.


Yup - I agree.
Marc is totally correct.....I've got over 5,000 crew flight hours in helicopters and around 4,000 of those is in Test Flight which makes my takeoff's and landings in the 10000-15000 range and we never, ever did one of them without using our checklist (even when were were on fire, during engine failure or any other emergency situation)
No matter how smart you are, no matter how competent you think you are and no matter how experienced you may be, you will never remember everything you have to do...It ain't gonna happen.
 

rogerpenna

Involved In Discussions
#18
It seems that you are trying to show your colleagues the importance of your checklists (from the We Know Best Department).
not MY checklist. Checklist created by Chief of Maintenance sector.

gee, don´t you think you are assuming too much by saying I am trying to impose my checklist?


How about starting with the operators and a blank sheet of paper; asking them collectively what they actually check before and after each operation/shift. Invite them to justify and discuss the need for each check and record the results of this discussion in an upgraded checklist - their checklist.

Ownership is a wonderful thing.
No. It's not up to them. If it was, there wouldn´t be so many maintenance problems for them NOT checking necessary items.


Just a question. Do pilots create their own checklists?

No. In big airplanes, checklists come from the manufacturer, appliances manufacturers, THEN airliners for specific items in the models being flown. It's not up to pilots to decide what items they want in a checklist.


We just had a training where maintenance had to reinforce that when the lights start to blink in a roller, because of lack of oil, they should IMMEDIATELY stop the roller, instead of waiting for the engine to go kaput. Just one example. So I guess instead of asking their opinion on how to do things wrongly, better to TRAIN them better first, which is what this thread is about.
 
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rogerpenna

Involved In Discussions
#19
Not checking items, not signing off that they've checked items, or both?

As I said in another post, they fill the checklists, but some of them:
1) clearly just checked all boxes without doing the the complete check (because they don´t think it's important)
2) some check the boxes AFTER doing their own checking (because they don't know the importance of going item by item). As I mentioned, that includes a few who cross all boxes with a SINGLE continuous line, impossible to draw such line while checking the items.
3) some only check boxes WHEN they encounter a problem on visual inspection. We know that sometimes they saw a problem on the visual inspection but there were OTHER problems they did not notice because they did not follow the checklist.
 

rogerpenna

Involved In Discussions
#20
I create my checklists in conjunction with the people responsible for the thing being checked. So when I create a checklist to record the status of a machine i.e. oil levels, filter conditions, interlock status etc. I do so with the involvement of the machine setters and maintenance, and operators even though the machine operator will be doing most of the checking.
It's with the involvement of maintenance that the checklist was created. I was not involved, and I NEVER said in this thread I was.

Which is why I get bothered John implied I was forcing my checklist on people, and his post was liked by people.


Like in my example, the employee on the evening shift in the sterilisation department may not know what surgical instruments and in what quantity are required for open heart surgery, however I would expect them (after a little training) to be able to follow a checklist created people who do, and also understand the importance of doing so.
Some drivers and operators may not know the importance of SOME of the things in heavy machinery and even trucks, or not realize the importance.

And that's EXACTLY why this thread is about TRAINING them on the importance on checklists.


In a previous role when I managed a new department and inherited checklists that were very time consuming, had not changed in decades and who’s value was repeatedly questioned by the people filling them out, I laid on a “free lunch” once a week at midday and invited everyone involved from Technology, Maintenance, Quality, Production and half a dozen key operators to attend a meeting for 1 hour to go through these checklists and identify what was important and what was not, what was relevant and what was not. After a month of these meetings I created the new checklists on the back of what we had all learned that had 75% of what the old checklists had. The check frequencies were increased on some items reduced on others, however the completion rate was now 100% and stayed like that for the two years I managed that department and 5 years after I left the department, right up until I left the company. Who knows what happened after that.
Will take note on that. However, it's already a quite simplified checklist. Which is why first I will try to show the importance of checklists.

Then we may discuss any changes with drivers/operators and maintenance.

Otherwise, the checklist will soon be "check status of truck" and they still won´t find it important.

-------------------------------------------------

I find it a little mind boggling...
"How can I better train people at something"

answer
"You should not try to enforce your checklists on people just because you think you know best"

really?
 
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