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How to submit PPAP without IMDS

F

faiz310

Registered
#1
#1
Hello..
Need advise..

I need to submit PPAP to my customer, but now i'm stuck as our supplier cannot submit IMDS due to component supply not automotive grade...
Is there any way i can submit PPAP(PSW) without IMDS or material reporting?

is this violate any rule/regulation because we use non automotive part for automotive although my customer approve it?
 
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E

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
#2
#2
IMDS is a requirement of the PPAP. I don't see a way around getting a PPAP approved without an IMDS. IMDS is used for products that are not necessarily "automotive grade", that really isn't a thing, in my opinion. The supplier should be able to enter the information into the system, whether or not the material is "automotive grade". You and your customer would need to approve the IMDS.

Good luck!
 
E

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
#4
#4
Golfman25 said:
Your customer can waive any ppap requirement. IMDS can be a useless exercise for many things.
Click to expand...
faiz could try this. However, in the PPAP AIAG manual, reporting of material/substance composition is required, via IMDS or other customer-specified system or method. I don't know how faiz's customer could get their PPAP approved to their customer (depending on how far down the tiers faiz is) without an approved IMDS. IMDS is something to cover lots of rears if something comes up down the road. You may find it useless, but there are many people who do find it useful, even as showing due diligence was done.
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
#5
Emmyd said:
faiz could try this. However, in the PPAP AIAG manual, reporting of material/substance composition is required, via IMDS or other customer-specified system or method. I don't know how faiz's customer could get their PPAP approved to their customer (depending on how far down the tiers faiz is) without an approved IMDS. IMDS is something to cover lots of rears if something comes up down the road. You may find it useless, but there are many people who do find it useful, even as showing due diligence was done.
Click to expand...
My guess is that thousands of PPAPs are submitted to customers every day without IMDS information. Many, if not most, customers will accept the standard material test report, which doesn't affect anyone's rear if the required information is included.
 
E

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
#6
#6
Jim Wynne said:
My guess is that thousands of PPAPs are submitted to customers every day without IMDS information. Many, if not most, customers will accept the standard material test report, which doesn't affect anyone's rear if the required information is included.
Click to expand...
Then you would extremely lucky to have successfully submitted PPAP's without this, Jim. In my 10 years in automotive and approximately 1000 PPAP submissions, I have always been required to submit an IMDS with a PPAP. Whether it was to an OEM or to a tier one, this was a requirement. That has been my experience across the board. If someone else has different experience, bless them - perhaps they would be willing to speak to their experience. In regards to the covering of rears - I'm speaking to the fact that if there are known toxic chemicals in a material composition, and the customer approves the IMDS with this condition, then one's company should be less liable in litigious society. Risk averse, right?

I'm trying to offer advice based on the known requirements and my experiences in the automotive industry, not belittle anyone or give advice that I know to be not true. I hope that faiz is able to get away with not having to submit IMDS - I wish them luck.

Edited to specify this AIAG requirement is for Submission to Level 2 & 3 PPAP's; retained information for Level 1 & 4.
 
Last edited:
G

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#7
#7
I would just point out that the Warrant specifically asks: "Has customer-required Substances of Concern information been reported?" Gives options of yes, no, or N/A. Then provides for "submitted by IMDS or other customer format."
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
#8
Emmyd said:
Then you would extremely lucky to have successfully submitted PPAP's without this, Jim. In my 10 years in automotive and approximately 1000 PPAP submissions, I have always been required to submit an IMDS with a PPAP.
Click to expand...
I would have a hard time characterizing my automotive experience as "lucky," but I can say that for nine years I was the primary reviewer of PPAPs for new model-year parts for a vehicle OEM. I reviewed some 6,000+ submissions in that time, and there wasn't any IMDS information in any of them, because it wasn't a requirement. This is apart from years of experience with automotive work as a supplier.

Emmyd said:
Edited to specify this AIAG requirement is for Submission to Level 2 & 3 PPAP's; retained information for Level 1 & 4.
Click to expand...
Level 4 PPAPs as submitted contain whatever the customer specifies must be submitted. Even level 1 and 2 PPAPs require submission of a PSW, wherein the IMDS information is included.
 
F

faiz310

Registered
#9
#9
thanks for everyone feedback..
additional info our company is tier 3..

we will try to submit the PSW without IMDS ID and put N/A for "Has customer-required Substances of Concern information been reported?". let see what our customer respond.
this is my 1st automotive project and difficult for me to handle as another supplier that supply non automotive component able to submit IMDS. Only 1 supplier wont provide IMDS.

My concern is we violate any PPAP or IATF rules...
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
#10
faiz310 said:
thanks for everyone feedback..
additional info our company is tier 3..

we will try to submit the PSW without IMDS ID and put N/A for "Has customer-required Substances of Concern information been reported?". let see what our customer respond.
this is my 1st automotive project and difficult for me to handle as another supplier that supply non automotive component able to submit IMDS. Only 1 supplier wont provide IMDS.

My concern is we violate any PPAP or IATF rules...
Click to expand...
Rather than submitting on a guess, you should ask your customer what's required.
 
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