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How to understand Processes, Procedures and Documented Procedures

Z

zerodefectss

#1
Hi
Here is a difficult question for me. I am looking forward to your help.
This difficulty is how to understand the difference between 'process,procedure and documented procedure". Ho, there is a more difficult question than the above, it is how to use these three concepts or principles or ideas within the organization. Looking forward to your posts.Everything as your wish!:eek:
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: How to understand process,procedure and documented procedure

Hii and welcome to the cove.
I will try and give you simple sentences taken from the standards.
1. Any activity that receives inputs and converts them to outputs can be considered as a process. (just imagine various examples)
These inputs can be materials, instructions, tools, instruments, ...
2. Many times the output of one process is input to an other process (just imagine various examples)
Do you see the word 'Convert' there in the statement ~~~
This convert is the activity that is done on the input (may be material) using other inputs (may be instructions, tools, etc) and HOW this activity has to be done is the procedure.
When this procedure is documented, it becomes documented procedure.
In sense this documented procedure will be controlled per the clause in ISO 9001 4.2.3.
This documented procedure as you can see is also a part of the input used when i said instructions.
Did I make some meaning to you ?
Do come back ~~~
 

harry

Super Moderator
#3
Re: How to understand process, procedure and documented procedure

I'll try it in Chinese (simplified)

Process - 过程
Procedure - 程序
Documented Procedure - 书面程序
 
Z

zerodefectss

#4
Re: How to understand process,procedure and documented procedure

1. Any activity that receives inputs and converts them to outputs can be considered as a process.
Thanks! Then do we can understand that one activity may see as a PROCESS, and many related activities may also see a big PROCESS, just like the title from ISO 9001 system Figure1--Model of Process Based Quality Management System.

This convert is the activity that is done on the input
and HOW this activity has to be done is the procedure.
OK! That is to say that the core of procedure is HOW, and the core of PROCESS is INPUT and OUTPUT.

BTW, Can we think of that one procedure may includes many processes.

When this procedure is documented, it becomes documented procedure..
In a word, in fact, their core are PROCESS APPROACH

This documented procedure as you can see is also a part of the input used when i said instructions.
Hi, The instruction you mentioned is very interesting for me.
sometime or some condition, one instruction may also is a process or procedure or documented procedure, is ti right?

Again, the most important is how to apply them.
We all know,instructions are for workers or operators. Documented procedures are for middle management

In addition, PROCESS is a kind of thinking method. it is the core of ISO 9000.:lmao:
 
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Z

zerodefectss

#5
Re: How to understand process, procedure and documented procedure

I'll try it in Chinese (simplified)

Process - 过程
Procedure - 程序
Documented Procedure - 书面程序
Hi.
I am pleasure to continually discuss with you on the above.
My questions are:
a PROCESS show what form in our works;
a PROCEDURE show what document or media or nothing;
we all know a DOCUMENTED PROCEDURE show a document.
BTW,what are their essential differences?
Again, the most important is how to use them in our work.
Good luck!:agree:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
Re: How to understand Process, Procedure and Documented Procedures

Everyone needs to quit guessing and just use the well known and specific definitions that are given in ISO 9000:2005. ISO 9000:2005 exists for a purpose and peolep need to quit bypassing it because the only result is confusion.
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Re: How to understand Process, Procedure and Documented Procedures

Everyone needs to quit guessing and just use the well known and specific definitions that are given in ISO 9000:2005. ISO 9000:2005 exists for a purpose and peolep need to quit bypassing it because the only result is confusion.
Randy, I completely agree with you with regards to using the ISO 9000 definitions. The problem is that some of these definitions are a little too 'bald' for some people to interpret.

I suspect this is the case with this poster - s/he may or may not have read the definitions but it is translating these into something meaningful that causes difficulties.
 
Z

zerodefectss

#8
Re: How to understand Process, Procedure and Documented Procedures

Everyone needs to quit guessing and just use the well known and specific definitions that are given in ISO 9000:2005. ISO 9000:2005 exists for a purpose and peolep need to quit bypassing it because the only result is confusion.
Thanks!This post is very meaningful and very interesting. Do you think so?
Our ISO works have to have some specific definitions in ISO 9000 standard to some special concept, if not, this world will be a confusion.

You are right! "to quit bypassing", the bypassing may is a kind of sofistry,but it expresses a helpfull information that this world is complex in a sense. I think we don't need to expensive debate centain concept in our work, but we should take into account these concept link to the context or the whole standard or the management system documents.

we should focus on their application in specific work, is it right?
I found a interesting thing, it is the definition on HUMAN. In chinese, HUMAN's definition is about that HUMAN is a senior animal that it can make and use tools. Dear sir! would you like to tell me its definition in English. I alway feel its definition is very interesting!

In fact, I focus on their application in our work. We know PDCA is a good thinking way. So, the application of PDCA and PROCESS and PROCEDURE is how to do in our work.

One definition or a knowledge or a standard, if they get no a good application, then they are only a piece of paper!:mad:
 
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