How will ISO 9001 help the machinists in a very small Machine Shop

#1
We ar a very small machine job and we are implementing a QMS based on ISO 9001:2008 standards which we hope to eventually become certified.

I've been asked my a coupld of the machinists how ISO 9001:2008 will make things better for them or help them in any way.

While I see how it helps management and QC, I am stumped on what to tell the shop workers.

Any insights?
 
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dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
We ar a very small machine job and we are implementing a QMS based on ISO 9001:2008 standards which we hope to eventually become certified.

I've been asked my a coupld of the machinists how ISO 9001:2008 will make things better for them or help them in any way.

While I see how it helps management and QC, I am stumped on what to tell the shop workers.

Any insights?
Read this article ...and we could continue the conversation.

hope it helps!

http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/iso-certificationis-it-worth-it
 

Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Great topic of discussion!

Unfortunately, for non-management employees (e.g. machinists, assembly personnel, design engineers...) moving to an ISO quality system may be a tough sell, especially if your current informal system is working...

Sure, you can talk "company culture" (as in the article posted), but an established culture is pretty difficult to change....

Very eager to hear others' input!
 

dgriffith

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
We ar a very small machine job and we are implementing a QMS based on ISO 9001:2008 standards which we hope to eventually become certified.

I've been asked my a coupld of the machinists how ISO 9001:2008 will make things better for them or help them in any way.

While I see how it helps management and QC, I am stumped on what to tell the shop workers.

Any insights?
It won't help them directly. In fact, they will think it is a royal PITA. I guarantee it. Bet money on it. Take it to Vegas it's that gold! It may (says with one eye closed) help the company, which would affect employees. However, this is a business, not a technical, decision. I might depend on what your customers, including potential future customers, want.
I have seen that the most vocal proponents of it are the very ones whose livelihood depends on promoting it... :)
 

Eredhel

Quality Manager
#5
One thing that can help is to clarify part of the why. For instance I let the machinists know I'm not here to find their mistakes. I'm here to prove to other people that they are doing a good job. That can then connect to the ISO requirement for proving we ship good parts. There are probably a lot of things like that, but it will need to start at the top and work its way down.
 

dgriffith

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
One thing that can help is to clarify part of the why. For instance I let the machinists know I'm not here to find their mistakes. I'm here to prove to other people that they are doing a good job. That can then connect to the ISO requirement for proving we ship good parts. There are probably a lot of things like that, but it will need to start at the top and work its way down.
I think that's a fallacy. ISO guarantees no such thing. In fact, you can have a good documentation system and turn out poor parts. Economics should soon fix that, however.
 
#7
I think that's a fallacy. ISO guarantees no such thing. In fact, you can have a good documentation system and turn out poor parts. Economics should soon fix that, however.
That depends on your definition of "good" doesn't it?

The fact is that it's NOT ISO which brings the benefits, it's the QMS which complies with ISO. Anyone who claims it's a PITA has only experienced things done ineffectually so, of course, that (small) experience is all they have to cling to as why its "wrong".

FACT: Implementation of a QMS for 9 people (who had no clue of "Quality"), to meet NATO contract = result?

33 Special OCR machines built, tested, delivered and installed (hardware and software QA) all across Europe without one single failure! NATO personnel commented they'd not seen an implementation THAT good before. Oh yeah, and we were audited by both NATO and MoD personnel.

What did it do for the 9 people? Gave clear description of all the processes and expectations to get the job done right - we didn't have to do ANYTHING twice or have a single failure. And if the customer wasn't happy, we'd have to do it over, at our cost!

I don't need convincing - I KNOW what it can achieve with complete novices!
 
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Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Anyone who claims it's a PITA has only experienced things done ineffectually so, of course, that (small) experience is all they have to cling to as why its "wrong".
With all due respect, I disagree. This statement seems to imply that lack of formal ISO quality system controls necessarily entails "things <are> done ineffectually".

Many businesses (especially small, simple ones) can operate just fine without all the controls required by an ISO system.

From a machinists (for example) point of view who has been working in such a business they may already have a "clear description of all the processes and expectations to get the job done right" (albeit informally). Such a person could quite reasonable feel that additional controls such as documented training, filling in NC reports, maintaining production records etc. is nothing but an imposed pain-in-the-a**.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Most readers here in the Cove understand the primary focus of my consulting business is business improvement and growth. Thus said, do ALL bosses and employees want to remain "a very small Machine Shop?"

If so, there is absolutely no reason to pursue registration to an ISO Standard. "Compliance" to the Standard "might" help operations become a little more efficient, but most customers of "a very small Machine Shop" won't care a rat's patootie - they only care about finished product at a low price. They don't care whether the shop makes a fair profit, because there's always another small machine shop to exploit.

If the bosses and employees are smart, they want to grow and expand and make more gross sales and more net profits, translated into higher salaries and bonuses for employees and bosses. One of the tools to achieve that growth is the ability to tout the organization's registration and adherence to an International Standard Quality Management System. Many large, profitable customers give preference to suppliers which are registered to such a Standard, giving the organization a leg up on making larger and more profitable sales.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#10
I have helped one and two person companies become ISO 9001 and AS9100 certified so I know from experience that there is no company too small to benefit from it.

Benefiting from it is dependent on embracing what the standard can do for the company and the employees. Those that embrace it discover that life gets easier. Those that don't embrace it, the ones that try to do just enough to get by, will find that it is always going to be a festering thorn in their side.

Here are some obvious benefits:

You have gained tools that can help you to resolve problems easier and in a more permanent manner.

The entire organization works better together as they are all working together to achieve the quality objectives. One of my clients said it best when explaining why he liked quality objectives/kpi - "because we can't hide things from each other anymore".

You become more attractive to the marketplace, especially as your quality and on-time-delivery improve. This translates to more job security and may indirectly translate to better paying jobs from higher earnings.

It tends to help the company stay abreast with changes that could effect the quality management system (this can include new technology, new equipment, new markets, new customers, new competition, and much more). This depends on how they deal with that particular requirement in management review which is wide open and many organizations try to limit it to internal changes. The 2015 revision of the standard may improve the awareness of this with the new topic in the new 4.1 where it is required to deal with understanding the organization in context.

So, even with just two of the topics, life gets easier and improved job security, what is there not to like for all employees, especially the rank and file, not just top management.

There are two main downsides as I see it:

More paperwork. There really isn't much if any more, and it becomes routine very quickly. When it is discovered that the extra attention to detail provides information to better and more quickly resolve problems this concern melts away very quickly.

Fear of the unknown. People resist change because they sense a fear of the unknown. This also melts away when they learn that communication tends to open up and there is less unknown. It is especially helpful to hold a meeting with all employees near the beginning of setting up an ISO 9001 system and let them know what is going on and why.

When the system is up and running and working as intended it is an awesome thing to see.

Try to take shortcuts and the results will be less spectacular, often much less.
 
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