Hunting and Fishing Thread - With Poll

[Randy Stewart]

However an even keener reader notices that despite the sterling record of auto-weapons owners for over fifty years, and despite: registration, police approval, state approval, special taxes, waiting periods, and extensive background checks, in 1986, ownership of newly manufactured automatic weapons was prohibited to civilians

But were the automatic weapons seized, from the prohibited civilians, manufactured to be fully auto or modified to be that way?

An AR-15 and M-16 sure look alike. The AR can be modified (only cost $45) to be fully auto and that's the only real difference that I know of. There probably are some other military manufacturing mods though.

 

[Al Dyer]

Randy,

You are very good in describing weapons and their uses.

I have a question;

Is it true that for up close work the .22 is the best because it is not strong enough to break through many bones but be re-directed by those bones to hit other vital areas?

No, not suicidal and I am not a professional hit-man (even though I do audit).

Al...

 

[Craig H.]

Added later:

AL

OK, I reread this, and my tone could be misinterpreted. Sorry.

Think of it like this. If the bullet has a lot of mass/speed, it can go straight through, doing little damage. If, though, the bullet "mushrooms" (deforms - the leading part expands), the bullet tumbles (the old British Enfield was known for this) or otherwise does something other than go straight through, it does more damage. This is important for hunters because a true sportsman wants a quick, clean, humane kill.

Is that better?

Craig

 

[Al Dyer]

Craig,

Maybe terminolgy for a novice? As I said, I have very little experience with firearms and understand little of what you posted.

All I did was ask a question, is there a problem?

Al...

 

[Randy Stewart]

I'm no expert with these weapons Al, just had training in the military, I use to blow stuff up, but you are correct. It is one of the reasons for the M-16 being a .223. You may hit something in the leg only to have it exit from the shoulder. The entry wound could be the size of a dime but the exit could be big enough to put your fist into and with a lot of little pieces left behind.
If you look at the inside of my right ankle it looks like someone put a cigar out on me, but the exit took over 200 stitches up my shin to close and I still can't get through a metal detector at the airport or courthouse the first time!
If you don't mind me asking, why the interest?

 

[Mike S.]

Originally posted by Al Dyer
Randy,

You are very good in describing weapons and their uses.

I have a question;

Is it true that for up close work the .22 is the best because it is not strong enough to break through many bones but be re-directed by those bones to hit other vital areas?

No, not suicidal and I am not a professional hit-man (even though I do audit).

Al...

Al,

Sometimes small-caliber bullets do wild things in flesh as you describe, but they also sometimes fail to penetrate at all or do very little damage. If they were really good all the time, police would only use .22's for the reason you cite and reduced recoil/increased shootability and lower risk of overpenetration (bullet exiting and hitting an unintended target). But they don't use .22's.

There are many complex factors involved in the effectiveness of a given shot on man or beast. The best and most comprehensive data I saw was in a magazine a few years ago where there was a great database of the results of police shootings and other shootings the police recorded using almost every caliber of handgun you could think of. And I think they even recorded the type/brand of ammo used. The ultimate desire is a "one-shot stop" where the bad-guy is stopped with a single hit. Of course nothing worked 100% of the time. If I recall correctly, of all calibers studied the tops for a one-shot stop was the .357 Mag with 158 grain jacketed hollow-point ammo, followed closely by the .45 auto. .22's were waaay down the list. If I can put my hands on the article I'll give more complete results. I've also read some military men complaining about the military giving most soldiers who get a handgun the 9mm vs. the old .45 auto "1911-style" because they are not as effective, yet the 9mm is much heavier and more powerful than the .22.

 

[Randy Stewart]

They had started giving us a 10mm in place of the old .45s. And you're right about the knock-down effect.
One of the things nice about an AK is that it could use the US M-16 round or its own ammo. However, the M-16 could not use the bigger AK-47 round.

 

[Mike S.]

A quick Google led me here -- check it out for lots of data on effectiveness of various rounds. http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

I was right about the .357 Mag. but wrong about the bullet most effective. The site says "The .357 Magnum, in Remington or Federal JHP, 125 grains, is unquestionably the most effective handgun cartridge in existence. Its proven ability to produce one shot stops exceeds that of any other round, including more powerful cartridges such as the .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum."

Our lesson for the day.

 

[Al Dyer]

Thanks for the info and link guys!

Al...

 

[energy]

Your worst nightmare

This morning, I thought I would sneak in a few hours of fishing. Having no luck with the shiners, I decided to pitch some hardware along the shoreline. As I swiveled my clamp on boat seat sideways, the seat let go and pitched me over the side. Fortunately, I was only 10 ft from shore and as the boat filled uo with water and stuff started to float, my feet found bottom. What an embarassing moment and a shock it was to go for a early morning swim with your clothes on. Anyway, I found land, pulled the boat up and salvaged everything, except my sweatshirt. Re-loaded the craft and made haste for my vehicle and went home in shame. Now, re-assessing the design of the clamp on boat seats, I have a foolproof idea to make sure that no matter what happens, the seat will not eject you like a fighter pilot from his aircraft. What a trip. Oh, I caught one small bass before the fiasco. Go ahead and laugh. It's on me!