I don?t have any experience with ISO 9001 - Help

1

14726

#1
I don’t have any experience with ISO 9001 - Help

I have been struggling with some issues at my company and would like to get some feedback. I am the Manager the Office of the System Auditor and we are ISO 9001:2008, EMS and OHSAS. You see I came from a totally different field, it’s BPO and I was never introduced to QMS before. When the Managing Director hired me, he told me he needs someone with strong leadership skill to spearhead the TS 16949 certification. So the problem now is that I don’t have any experience about ISO and all these stuff I’m doing now. I am still learning everyday. Worse is, my assistant who's been with the industry for years is not being transparent to me. Sometimes they don’t copy me on emails and all other “sabotage”. I was not even trained since day 1; they made me read all manuals and procedures. It was helpful but I expected more from them. I’m very thankful there’s such website as elsmar cove where I can get real information. I'm being pressured on getting the TS certification this year, I need to know what trainings or are there reading materials you guys can suggest to help me do my job? Also, I’ve read somewhere here that we need to integrate first before TS, or I probably misunderstood it? Our consultant is telling us that it’s okay not to integrate and I am very confused. Can someone please shed me some light on this? Also the consultant informed us we’ll have our stage 1 audit but the CB informed us we’ll have our audit 2 months from now.

Thank you in advance.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
#4
Re: TS16949 stage 1 audit preparations and training

Welcome to the Cove!

I regret to hear of your negative experience. When you mentioned sabotage I was reminded of "Don't Feed the Hog." I am not affiliated with VitalSmarts.

But it made me wonder about the circumstance of your employment. Do your employees resent your being hired as manager with no education or experience in ISO management systems? You say you were hired because management wanted a strong leader. That has happened to me, twice. But my new managers are good guys and I support their success - for the limited time I have left there.

But that is a different discussion. Now you need training. Yes, it's good to read the company's quality manual and procedures, but you are right in that it's not enough and it certainly won't qualify you to lead their audit program.

So I recommend the TS 16949 Answer Book. It is dated from 2002 but is still valuable, and I think it is an easy read.

One of our Covers also has a book out titled ISO 9001 in Plain English. It is also well recommended.

To be lead auditor you should complete a TS 16949 Lead Auditor Training course. When taking my course our instructor sternly pointed out this class was not intended to teach TS 16949; we should come ready with an understanding of the standard. So I encourage you to do a lot of reading, and compare/contrast what's in your current system with what you read.

You absolutely do NOT need to integrate your quality, safety and environmental management systems but I want you to understand that TS 16949 is ISO9001:2008, only with additional requirements that extend past the ISO elements. For example, the certification requirement in TS 16949, 6.2.2.2 extends past the training and competency element of ISO 9001:2008, 6.2.2.

If you don't have the manuals for FMEA, SPC etc., I suggest you purchase a set sooner rather than later.

What role does your consultant have - what is the scope of his or her service to you? I don't want to make overlap here.
 
Last edited:
1

14726

#5
Re: I don’t have any experience about ISO 9001 - Help

Marc and Harry -- Thanks for the links.

Jennifer -- I have always admired your very detailed replies. I guess you answered my questions right on. :)

Do your employees resent your being hired as manager with no education or experience in ISO management systems?
I'd say yes. If I'm in their position maybe I'd feel the same way too. I'm trying to be the bigger person. I'll read more, ask questions, do what I can to learn more about my job and prove them I deserve the position. I know it's not going to a smooth ride since I am the only Gen Y in this company.

What role does your consultant have - what is the scope of his or her service to you?
I have been asking since day 1 but nobody really gave me a direct answer. My GM told me his job is to help us get the TS16949, that's it. They can't even show me the contract.

To be lead auditor you should complete a TS 16949 Lead Auditor Training course.
We'll have our training next week.

I'll make sure to go through all those reading materials and update you if I have more questions.

:thanks: guys for your advise!
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
#6
Re: I don’t have any experience about ISO 9001 - Help

Thanks for confirming 17426, it is as I guessed. You're in a tough spot.

I had hoped I wasn't stepping over the advice line in referring "Don't Feed the Hog" but I have found its central training course, Crucial Confrontations, the single most valuable in-house training my employer provided to me. I say that as an auditor, an employee and a potential manager.

Back to TS. I hope your in-house training is good. Every certification body (CB) auditor who comes to audit you will ask about your training.

I think it's disturbing that you were told so little about what your consultant is chartered to do. Well, okay. Ask him as many questions as you can, but do feel free to visit here often for sensibility checks and we will give you our feedback. We're here for you!
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
#7
Re: TS16949 stage 1 audit preparations and training

I have been struggling with some issues at my company and would like to get some feedback. I am the Manager the Office of the System Auditor and we are ISO 9001:2008, EMS and OHSAS. You see I came from a totally different field, it’s BPO and I was never introduced to QMS before. When the Managing Director hired me, he told me he needs someone with strong leadership skill to spearhead the TS 16949 certification. So the problem now is that I don’t have any experience about ISO and all these stuff I’m doing now. I am still learning everyday. Worse is, my assistant who's been with the industry for years is not being transparent to me. Sometimes they don’t copy me on emails and all other “sabotage”. I was not even trained since day 1; they made me read all manuals and procedures. It was helpful but I expected more from them. I’m very thankful there’s such website as elsmar cove where I can get real information. I'm being pressured on getting the TS certification this year, I need to know what trainings or are there reading materials you guys can suggest to help me do my job? Also, I’ve read somewhere here that we need to integrate first before TS, or I probably misunderstood it? Our consultant is telling us that it’s okay not to integrate and I am very confused. Can someone please shed me some light on this? Also the consultant informed us we’ll have our stage 1 audit but the CB informed us we’ll have our audit 2 months from now.

Thank you in advance.
14726,

As the Manager the Office of the System Auditor you have to maintain your independence.

Your focus now should be on making sure that your audit programme has solid objectives from top management and that you have the processes and resources necessary to fulfill those objectives (see ISO 19011:2011) in running the audit programme.

You could audit the work of the project team and consultant that is developing your management system but I would stay out of it at this stage except to share the objectives of your internal audit programme.

Best wishes,

John
 
#8
Re: TS16949 stage 1 audit preparations and training

Welcome to the Cove!

I regret to hear of your negative experience. When you mentioned sabotage I was reminded of "Don't Feed the Hog." I am not affiliated with VitalSmarts.
Thanks for sharing. Between this and Steve's sharing of Tom Peter's recent work, I have had an enjoyable evening.

Before reading "Don't Feed the Hog" the title reminded me of an old saying I was introduced to when I found myself in an adversarial position with a hog, but perhaps one of slightly different ilk (or maybe more the same than it first seems). That saying is: "When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig don't care." I would guess that the hog feeders don't really care if they get dirty as long as they pull you into the mire with them.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
#9
Re: TS16949 stage 1 audit preparations and training

Before reading "Don't Feed the Hog" the title reminded me of an old saying I was introduced to when I found myself in an adversarial position with a hog, but perhaps one of slightly different ilk (or maybe more the same than it first seems). That saying is: "When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig don't care." I would guess that the hog feeders don't really care if they get dirty as long as they pull you into the mire with them.
If I had more free time and money I would like to pursue a doctorate in Psychology with a focus on Industrial Psychology. Without that I can't presume to say that people who feed the hog (as in the sabotage term) do so without a care of their own sullying. However, I feel okay guessing that in most cases they believe their actions won't qualify as dirty tactics, or they are obscure enough to not get caught. The human mind has a phenomenal capacity for denial.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
Re: I don’t have any experience with ISO 9001 - Help

I have been struggling with some issues at my company and would like to get some feedback. I am the Manager the Office of the System Auditor and we are ISO 9001:2008, EMS and OHSAS. You see I came from a totally different field, it’s BPO and I was never introduced to QMS before. When the Managing Director hired me, he told me he needs someone with strong leadership skill to spearhead the TS 16949 certification. So the problem now is that I don’t have any experience about ISO and all these stuff I’m doing now. I am still learning everyday. Worse is, my assistant who's been with the industry for years is not being transparent to me. Sometimes they don’t copy me on emails and all other “sabotage”. I was not even trained since day 1; they made me read all manuals and procedures. It was helpful but I expected more from them. I’m very thankful there’s such website as elsmar cove where I can get real information. I'm being pressured on getting the TS certification this year, I need to know what trainings or are there reading materials you guys can suggest to help me do my job? Also, I’ve read somewhere here that we need to integrate first before TS, or I probably misunderstood it? Our consultant is telling us that it’s okay not to integrate and I am very confused. Can someone please shed me some light on this? Also the consultant informed us we’ll have our stage 1 audit but the CB informed us we’ll have our audit 2 months from now.

Thank you in advance.
So, you are "doing the audit" in a couple months, but you are at square one... Well, discuss with top mgt that the system and the team is not ready.

This is not liek cramming for a test. You are implementing a system. You are building a house. This is a significant undertaking. But, these skills can be learned.

It requires training, learning, practice, skills. Take the time to do it correctly, and well. Don't rush things over arbitrary deadlines.

It takes a year to put a system in appropriately. It can be done in less time if you have a very good consultant. It can be done in less time if you are willing to do it poorly... But, read the posts on this Elsmar forum from so many companies who crammed something through, and struggle with a system that is not robust.

Do you want your name and reputation to be linked to a system no one likes? Or, do you want to push people to do it right?
 
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