I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mode"

M

mtncrawler

#11
Good feedback Jim. I agree, addressing special characteristics and process failure modes in the same FMEA is possible.

BTW, which "Book" are you referring too?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
mtncrawler said:
Good feedback Jim. I agree, addressing special characteristics and process failure modes in the same FMEA is possible.
Thank you. The result is the key, and if you and I get to the same place at roughly the same time, the route taken is mostly irrelevant.

mtncrawler said:
BTW, which "Book" are you referring too?
Why the Most Holy of books in all of FMEAland--the AIAG FMEA manual (and SAE J1739, from whence it came).
 
M

mtncrawler

#13
Jim Wynne said:
Thank you. The result is the key, and if you and I get to the same place at roughly the same time, the route taken is mostly irrelevant.

True, true. Well, OK, maybe the customer cares about the route sometimes...

Why the Most Holy of books in all of FMEAland--the AIAG FMEA manual (and SAE J1739, from whence it came).
:lol: That's what I thought, but you never know.
 
I

itisfunny

#14
Linking QFD and FMEA

Hallo dear All,
I am looking for a practical example, where the two Methods QFD and FMEA are linked. Please If someone has any documents dealing with the Linking of QFD and FMEA, i will be gratefull to receive them. Even if the documents are in French or in German.

Franc:thanx:
 
C

Catallina

#15
Re: I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mo

There are different ways to tackle a PFMEA. Our "preferred" definitions are as follows:
Failure Mode = Measureable on the product
Failure Cause = Measureable in the process
Sooo....
"A N.C. of the process could be "too hight temperature", a N.C. of the product "burned item" and the temperature could be te cause." I would treat as "Burnt" is the Failure Mode and "Temperature setting - set too high" as the Failure Cause.


Regarding Incoming Inspection - You could have Failure Modes such as "Accept nonconforming product" or "Reject conforming product" with Failure Causes such as "Sampling Plan ineffective"; "Gage out of calibration"; "Visual Standards unclear"; etc. We also happen to list the product features we wish to inspect as Failure Modes (the biggest reason being that our software forces us to have product characteristics listed as Modes to get them showing up in the correct place on the Control Plan).

As I mentioned, this is how we tackle PFMEAs (that are submitted with PPAPs) at our company - there are others that list failures of the process as Failure Modes. My "issue" with that methodology is that you can get into a "circle" where a Failure Cause turns into a Failure Mode or vice versa.

Does that help any?
Hello,

I'm very, very beginner in PFMEA activity. And very confused...
I understood that failure cause is linked to process requirement and the failure mode is linked to product requirement.
E.g.:
- process step: stainless steel slitting
- product requirement: specified telescopicity
- process requirement: specified pressure for shaft with separators
- failure mode: inccorect pressure (process failed) or telescopicity too high (product failed)?

Thank you for your support!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#16
Re: I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mo

Hello,

I'm very, very beginner in PFMEA activity. And very confused...
I understood that failure cause is linked to process requirement and the failure mode is linked to product requirement.
E.g.:
- process step: stainless steel slitting
- product requirement: specified telescopicity
- process requirement: specified pressure for shaft with separators
- failure mode: inccorect pressure (process failed) or telescopicity too high (product failed)?

Thank you for your support!
Welcome to the Cove. :D

Your question is the topic of this thread. You should read through it from the beginning. In short, you can do it either way so long as (a) the method is OK with your customer(s) and (b) you're consistent about it.
 
C

Catallina

#17
Re: I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mo

Thank you for this prompt reply!

Yes, I read topic but I need to be very sure that I have selected the best way for establishing the failure mode.

I have one more wonder: how is the better to describe the potential effect:
1. telescopicity too high
or
2. difficulty to use the coil in customer machinery?

Thank you again!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
Re: I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mo

Thank you for this prompt reply!

Yes, I read topic but I need to be very sure that I have selected the best way for establishing the failure mode.

I have one more wonder: how is the better to describe the potential effect:
1. telescopicity too high
or
2. difficulty to use the coil in customer machinery?

Thank you again!
Both. When a failure mode occurs, there could be numerous effects. All possible effects on subsequent activities, including the customer, must be considered. The severity ranking "S", is based on the worst effect of a given failure mode.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.
 
C

Catallina

#20
Re: I have two doubts about PFMEA failure modes - How should I describe a "failure mo

Hi,

I need to be enlightened one more time, please!
In AIAG manual for Process potential failure mode is stipulated: “the manner in which the process could potentially fail to meet the process requirements (including the design intent)”.
What does “design intent” mean actually in this case?
Thank you!
 
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