IATF 16949:2016 clause 8.4.2.3 - We don't have ISO 9001:2015 certificate

[MK Ilayaraja]

Hello friends,

Looking for a clarification on IATF 8.4.2.3; My company is a greenfield and supplying parts to an IATF certified automotive customer for the last six months. They approved us by conducting supplier evaluation audit. Next month they are going to face 1st surveillance audit. The thing is, we dont have ISO 9001:2015 certificate but IATF implementation is under process. We have only consultant's implementation timing plan.

Now, how could my customer justify the scenario to the audit team..? Any suggestions please!

 

[Hendor]

Hello MK Ilayaraja!

Your customer (eg a Tier 2) must have an authorization from his customer (eg Tier 1) in order to buy and use yours products.

A report of the 2nd part audit, showing that your company meets the requirements of ISO 9001, should be shared a the (eg Tier 1), to request acceptance.

I recommend that you see the sanctioned interpretation # 8 on this clause (8.4.2.3), which includes the note:

NOTE: The minimum acceptable level of QMS development may be compliance to ISO 9001 through second-party audits, if authorized by the customer.

To see the sanctioned interpretations:
IATF 16949:2016 Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) – International Automotive Task Force

I hope my comment is helpful

 

[Golfman25]

It's right here in the note to the SI

"NOTE: The minimum acceptable level of QMS development may be compliance to ISO 9001 through second-party audits, if authorized by the customer. "

So it's not really your problem. Your customer needs to seek approval from their customer. Happens a lot with small legacy suppliers.

 

[MK Ilayaraja]

Hello MK Ilayaraja!

Your customer (eg a Tier 2) must have an authorization from his customer (eg Tier 1) in order to buy and use yours products.

A report of the 2nd part audit, showing that your company meets the requirements of ISO 9001, should be shared a the (eg Tier 1), to request acceptance.

I recommend that you see the sanctioned interpretation # 8 on this clause (8.4.2.3), which includes the note:

NOTE: The minimum acceptable level of QMS development may be compliance to ISO 9001 through second-party audits, if authorized by the customer.

To see the sanctioned interpretations:
IATF 16949:2016 Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) – International Automotive Task Force

I hope my comment is helpful

Thanks a lot!

It's right here in the note to the SI

"NOTE: The minimum acceptable level of QMS development may be compliance to ISO 9001 through second-party audits, if authorized by the customer. "

So it's not really your problem. Your customer needs to seek approval from their customer. Happens a lot with small legacy suppliers.

Thanks! Much helpful!

 

[Johnnymo62]

That slippery word "may", leads me to believe it's not required.

 

[Dr. IJ Arora]

Hello friends,

Looking for a clarification on IATF 8.4.2.3; My company is a greenfield and supplying parts to an IATF certified automotive customer for the last six months. They approved us by conducting supplier evaluation audit. Next month they are going to face 1st surveillance audit. The thing is, we dont have ISO 9001:2015 certificate but IATF implementation is under process. We have only consultant's implementation timing plan.

Now, how could my customer justify the scenario to the audit team..? Any suggestions please!

My thought is ISO 9001 should have been implemented. The IATF 8.4.2.3 in a way connects risk to not having ISO 9001!! In effect you could interpret this to mean, without ISO 9001, you have created the scope for risks.
If you already have a system in place, and it confirms to ISO 9001, which it should, if you are already well advanced in implementing IATF, then why not self declare you confirm to ISO 9001?
Do feel free to ask additional questions.

 

[Dr. IJ Arora]

That slippery word "may", leads me to believe it's not required.

...... that is how risk is introduced! Just my 2c.

 

[malasuerte]

Hello friends,

Looking for a clarification on IATF 8.4.2.3; My company is a greenfield and supplying parts to an IATF certified automotive customer for the last six months. They approved us by conducting supplier evaluation audit. Next month they are going to face 1st surveillance audit. The thing is, we dont have ISO 9001:2015 certificate but IATF implementation is under process. We have only consultant's implementation timing plan.

Now, how could my customer justify the scenario to the audit team..? Any suggestions please!

So here is how it works - Customers to the Automotive industry are responsible for their suppliers (Supplier Management). So BMW for example, may be supplied by Bosch, who may be supplied by XXXX, who may be supplied to you. Requirements are expected to be cascaded through the supply chain accordingly.

Since each customer is responsible for their suppliers, part of that responsibility is to audit those suppliers. That is how it is justified.

This same responsibility may be required of your company....if the part you make has a critical component supplied by someone, you should be auditing that supplier.

 

[Jim Wynne]

So here is how it works - Customers to the Automotive industry are responsible for their suppliers (Supplier Management). So BMW for example, may be supplied by Bosch, who may be supplied by XXXX, who may be supplied to you. Requirements are expected to be cascaded through the supply chain accordingly.

Since each customer is responsible for their suppliers, part of that responsibility is to audit those suppliers. That is how it is justified.

This same responsibility may be required of your company....if the part you make has a critical component supplied by someone, you should be auditing that supplier.

There is no requirement for auditing of suppliers.

 

[malasuerte]

There is no requirement for auditing of suppliers.

What is 84241? "The organization shall include a second-party audit process in their supplier management approach."

Go ahead...you can say it is not a requirement - but at minimum it is one of the main methods of monitoring your suppliers. Certainly not all suppliers, but critical suppliers for sure! It won't go over well if you tell a Automotive customer that you are not auditing your critical suppliers. We currently are working with over a dozen Auto customers and it is and expectation of every single one! Our company of 140,000 will consider it a requirement.