IATF 16949:2016 still doesn't get 7.1.4 of ISO 9001:2015

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#1
The IATF 16949:2016 supplemental document states under 7.1.4:
NOTE Where third-party certification to ISO 45001 (or equivalent is recognized, it may be used to demonstrate the organization's conformity to the personnel safety aspects of this requirement.
The problem is, ISO 9001 does not have any requirements associated with personnel safety. Under ISO 9001:2015, the requirement is clearly addressing conformity of products and services.

Further, as mentioned numerous times in the past, section 0.4 of ISO 9001:2015 clearly states that the standard contains NO requirements related to occupational health and safety management.

I don't understand why they continue to attempt to inject occupational health issues in a QMS standard.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
The IATF 16949:2016 supplemental document states under 7.1.4:
The problem is, ISO 9001 does not have any requirements associated with personnel safety. Under ISO 9001:2015, the requirement is clearly addressing conformity of products and services.

Further, as mentioned numerous times in the past, section 0.4 of ISO 9001:2015 clearly states that the standard contains NO requirements related to occupational health and safety management.

I don't understand why they continue to attempt to inject occupational health issues in a QMS standard.
I think I might know the answer...
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
Too many cooks, some of whom aren't qualified to be in the process to begin with? Standard(s) that continually introduce revisions/changes when none were needed in the first place? Too many consultants with conflicting interpretations confusing interpretations?

Back in the 1980's I was enthusiastic about standards. I was in DoD aerospace. Back then they were less of a "business", in my opinion. These days not so much. My expectations of standards since the late 1990's has gone far down hill with the possible exception of aerospace standards.

I think I might know the answer...
Awaiting your opinion...
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
“NOTES” do not contain (auditable) requirements.
An organization may decide to completely ignore it.
It is as simple as that...
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Not auditable, but I figured Sidney's post was along the lines of why is that note there to begin with.
In IATF 16949 there are many other examples provided in NOTES.
Suggestions only. Not requirements. I think you can over-analyze everything.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#8
Sidney will have to clarify, and I'd like to know what Andy is referring to, but as I said - My "interpretation" of Sidney's comments (and thus my initial response) is why are extraneous, unrelated "notes" like the one Sidney cited included in the "standard" at all.

It would help if someone here would give the 7.1.4 clause (Environment for the operation of processes) here to better see the context.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Sidney will have to clarify, and I'd like to know what Andy is referring to, but as I said - My "interpretation" of Sidney's comments (and thus my initial response) is why are extraneous, unrelated "notes" like the one Sidney cited included in the "standard" at all.

It would help if someone here would give the 7.1.4 clause (Environment for the operation of processes) here to better see the context.
From ISO 9001:2015

7.1.4 Environment for the operation of processes

The organization shall determine, provide and maintain the environment necessary for the operation of its processes and to achieve conformity of products and services.

NOTE A suitable environment can be a combination of human and physical factors, such as:

a) social (e.g. non-discriminatory, calm, non-confrontational);

b) psychological (e.g. stress-reducing, burnout prevention, emotionally protective);

c) physical (e.g. temperature, heat, humidity, light, airflow, hygiene, noise).

These factors can differ substantially depending on the products and services provided.

From IATF 16949:2016

7.1.4 Environment for the operation of processes

See ISO 9001:2015 requirements

NOTE Where third-party certification to ISO 45001 (or equivalent) is recognized, it may be used to demonstrate the organization's conformity to the personnel safety aspects of this requirement.
 
#10
Too many cooks, some of whom aren't qualified to be in the process to begin with? Standard(s) that continually introduce revisions/changes when none were needed in the first place? Too many consultants with conflicting interpretations confusing interpretations?

Back in the 1980's I was enthusiastic about standards. I was in DoD aerospace. Back then they were less of a "business", in my opinion. These days not so much. My expectations of standards since the late 1990's has gone far down hill with the possible exception of aerospace standards.

Awaiting your opinion...
My observation is that IATF 16949 has become a "bucket" for a lot of requirements (not necessarily product related) as a means to drag the supply chain into the 20th century.
 
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