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IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement System Analysis (MSA) - Visual Inspection

lmamao

Involved In Discussions
#1
In 7.1.5.1.1 it says: "Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment identified in the control plan", well when they say each type of inspection in the control plan this includes "visual inspection" in my process almost 70 to 90% is visual inspection, does that mean I have to do gage R&R to all of them?

Another thing in the fourth edition of the MSA book in page 131 it says: ) “the analysis described in the preceding chapters cannot be used to evaluate such systems”, this when taking about visual inspections.

Is there anyway to get arround it?
 

O'Leary

Registered
#2
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

I asked my auditor about this during my Stage 1 audit last week, since most of our inspections are visual as well. We proposed putting together a 10 piece test with 4 know rejects in it to strengthen the visual inspection process. A gage R&R cannot be completed on many visual inspections. It was agreed this would be acceptable.
 

Sebastian

Really trusted?
Trusted
#3
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

In 7.1.5.1.1 it says: "Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment identified in the control plan", well when they say each type of inspection in the control plan this includes "visual inspection" in my process almost 70 to 90% is visual inspection, does that mean I have to do gage R&R to all of them?
You can prepare batch with OK and NOK samples and test inspectors.
"For me it is OK", "For me it is NOK". Record comments and evaluate reliability of visual inspection. Maybe it is not reliable at all.

Another thing in the fourth edition of the MSA book in page 131 it says: ) “the analysis described in the preceding chapters cannot be used to evaluate such systems”, this when taking about visual inspections.

Is there anyway to get arround it?
"Grey area" in auditing. Auditors usually (except in cases where visual aspects are clearly identified in product specification) focus on measurement systems where variables are available. It does not mean, they won't ask about it. When subjects of your customers' claims are related to "visual defects" and poor efficiency of visual inspection is a factor, so they may not have other choice as audit how this system was approved before implementation in line.

My experience shows low probability of auditing this kind of inspection systems, but requirement remains a requirement.
 

lmamao

Involved In Discussions
#5
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

What about the note? It says: "Prioritization of MSA studies should focus on critical or special product or process characteristics", If I only focus on those 2 it would greatly reduce the studies that we have to do.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

I asked my auditor about this during my Stage 1 audit last week, since most of our inspections are visual as well. We proposed putting together a 10 piece test with 4 know rejects in it to strengthen the visual inspection process. A gage R&R cannot be completed on many visual inspections. It was agreed this would be acceptable.
You can do attribute gage R&R.
 
#7
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

What about the note? It says: "Prioritization of MSA studies should focus on critical or special product or process characteristics", If I only focus on those 2 it would greatly reduce the studies that we have to do.
The key word is 'prioritization' - this doesn't mean the rest can be neglected or ignored, it only means that your FIRST studies should be on the critical or special characteristics.
 
#8
In 7.1.5.1.1 it says: "Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment identified in the control plan", well when they say each type of inspection in the control plan this includes "visual inspection" in my process almost 70 to 90% is visual inspection, does that mean I have to do gage R&R to all of them?

Another thing in the fourth edition of the MSA book in page 131 it says: ) “the analysis described in the preceding chapters cannot be used to evaluate such systems”, this when taking about visual inspections.

Is there anyway to get arround it?
Hi,

A kappa index is a statistics that you can apply in these cases and you can analyse the variation of this idnex through the time.

Best regards
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
A "Kappa" study is the best choice. It is not as straightforward as a continuous data test. DEAD LINK REMOVED is one I published here to describe the process. (note it also includes info on continuous data...)

2 DEAD LINKS REMOVED.

EDIT: THIS POST HAD LINKS FROM THE OLD FORUM AND THEY DID NOT CARRY OVER CORRECTLY. WE WILL TRY TO RE-LINK THEM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maggylu168

Starting to get Involved
#10
Re: IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement system analysis

You can do attribute gage R&R.
For this, I checked CSR. It said, attributive G R&R by using marginal samples is necessary to prove the capability of the inspection. Then prioritize those customer required records of inspection items for limited resource.
 
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