IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency

[Mr.Ruiz]

Hello colleagues,

I need your support on this,

Last week we had our external audit, and one of the auditors was auditing this clause, and saw that we did an internal auditors training, so he was asking for the competence of our internal auditor (me). My lead auditor training is from a company called BSI, and the title of the training says "Lead Auditor for ISO 9001:2015 with emphasis in IATF 16949:2016", so he was insisting that I wouldn't be allow to perform this type of training, that my training title should says "Lead Auditor for IATF16949". My question here is, I did a double check to the standard, and I don't find where in the standard requires the trainer to be Lead Auditor, I remember to saw this somewhere, but can't find it. Can someone point me where is this requirement established?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Was this written as a nonconformity? Have you asked the auditor for the source?

 

[Golfman25]

You just need to show competency, not a title.
See sanctioned interpretation 4.
https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org...2018/11/IATF-16949-SIs_Oct-2018_12Nov2018.pdf

 

[Mr.Ruiz]

Was this written as a nonconformity? Have you asked the auditor for the source?

Hi Jim, thank God no, it was not. He quoted to this sub-clause, but I did discussed with him that first of all, Sub-clause does not mention any lead auditor training and second of all, I was showing my competency with the referred documentation. He was still skeptical on this, but did not wrote any nonconformity.

 

[Mr.Ruiz]

You just need to show competency, not a title.
See sanctioned interpretation 4.
https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org...2018/11/IATF-16949-SIs_Oct-2018_12Nov2018.pdf

Thanks Golfman, That's what I thought so, but sometimes auditors are just too box shaped minded, they want to see things like they always do. Anyhow, I guess there is no way to write a nonconformity if competency somehow is being prove.

 

[Golfman25]

Thanks Golfman, That's what I thought so, but sometimes auditors are just too box shaped minded, they want to see things like they always do. Anyhow, I guess there is no way to write a nonconformity if competency somehow is being prove.

I think many auditors will take the easy way out. Certificate = competency.

 

[sistoiv]

See also this

elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/threads/iatf-16949-is-certified-internal-auditor-mandatory.75970

IATF must clarify this point on SI: let's stop unjustified request from CB'auditors, first of all their commercial boss ask for selling and billing courses.

 

[Randy]

A BSI certificate doesn't say one is competent in any position, they say that competence with the material was demonstrated by passing the courses modules (TPEC). Competency is defined as "demonstrated ability" and if you applied for an accredited Lead Auditor certification with only training certs you wouldn't get it.

Now if I remember correctly, to do TS an internal auditor had to have attended an accredited course, which you apparently have, but it rests on the organization to define competence and the CB auditor to verify its fulfillment by looking at the work delivered coupled with the person delivering it.