IATF 16949 Audit MSA

S

s00067824

#1
Hi Guys,

Our annual IATF audit will be happening in a couple of weeks. I am new to the company so this will be my first experience with an audit like this. I carry out all the MSA's and am just curious about what kind of questions to expect from the auditor? I am afraid I will be asked something that I won't have an answer to and already feel nervous about it.

All help and advice much appreciated.

Thanks in advance :)
 
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#2
It's almost impossible to tell you what any specific auditor will ask. Some know MSA better than others. My advice is not to let them ask questions, take control of the audit by confidently demonstrating what it is you do. Job done!
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#3
I am afraid I will be asked something that I won't have an answer to
The key is that you do MSA's and the assumption is you understand MSA. Remember that. The only time there may be a problem is if you do not understand what you are doing.

You should also have a copy of the AIAG's MSA manual. As Andy said about auditors:
Some know MSA better than others.
Over the years I have seen many auditors who did not understand a variety of requirements, not to mention have any expertise in various areas, one of which is MSA and statistics in general. Never assume the auditor is more knowledgeable than you are.

You you are competent and you know your job. Be confident in that. Don't let an auditor scare you.
 

Mr.Ruiz

Starting to get Involved
#4
Hi Guys,

I carry out all the MSA's and im just curious about what kind of questions to expect from the auditor?
As Marc and Andy already said, try to look into your process, and try to match the MSA requirements to your company, just ask to yourself "are all the type of studies being done?" "did we consider MSA studies for visual inspections?" "are all methods and/or criteria for acceptance defined?" "any of them requires customer approval?"

Remember that any NC Finding not necessary represent a negative matter, it might be an opportunity to reinforce your system.
 
#5
This might be slightly off-topic, but this is the only place I see on the forum where MSA for visual inspections is mentioned...

When visual verification is indicated in control plan for workmanship criteria (presence of machined features, absence of burrs, etc.) in a strictly CNC-based industry that produces no products with appearance criteria, is there a simple method of keeping a "Visual MSA" on file? I was under the impression that any kind of MSA for visual inspections would only apply if there were appearance criteria involved, but I also want to make sure we're prepared if this question comes up next year.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
This might be slightly off-topic, but this is the only place I see on the forum where MSA for visual inspections is mentioned...

When visual verification is indicated in control plan for workmanship criteria (presence of machined features, absence of burrs, etc.) in a strictly CNC-based industry that produces no products with appearance criteria, is there a simple method of keeping a "Visual MSA" on file? I was under the impression that any kind of MSA for visual inspections would only apply if there were appearance criteria involved, but I also want to make sure we're prepared if this question comes up next year.
There is no such thing as a "visual MSA," as such. There is an attributes MSA, which is used in Go/No-Go cases where actual measurement data isn't used. If there are control plan requirements for visual inspection, and there are related specific acceptance criteria, you need to do an attributes study.
 

Mr.Ruiz

Starting to get Involved
#7
This might be slightly off-topic, but this is the only place I see on the forum where MSA for visual inspections is mentioned...

When visual verification is indicated in control plan for workmanship criteria (presence of machined features, absence of burrs, etc.) in a strictly CNC-based industry that produces no products with appearance criteria, is there a simple method of keeping a "Visual MSA" on file? I was under the impression that any kind of MSA for visual inspections would only apply if there were appearance criteria involved, but I also want to make sure we're prepared if this question comes up next year.
Like Jim said, you can cover them with the attribute study. If you have an acceptance criteria for those type of controls in your control plan, you need to ensure that your measurement system is "in shape" or you might deliver bad product to your customer, that's why those type of study are required.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
This might be slightly off-topic, but this is the only place I see on the forum where MSA for visual inspections is mentioned...

When visual verification is indicated in control plan for workmanship criteria (presence of machined features, absence of burrs, etc.) in a strictly CNC-based industry that produces no products with appearance criteria, is there a simple method of keeping a "Visual MSA" on file? I was under the impression that any kind of MSA for visual inspections would only apply if there were appearance criteria involved, but I also want to make sure we're prepared if this question comes up next year.
A lot will depend on your auditor. Most of us normal people use "visual inspection" to look for obvious defects and issues -- i.e.; is the package damaged when taken off the truck, scratches, is the hole there, etc. Don't really need an MSA for that. Of course if you put that into your control plan, then all heck breaks loose when a goofy auditor comes in and wants to see the MSA. We get around it by making it a reference note in our control plan as opposed to a "control" item. Stupid if you ask me.

Contrast that from a situation where you using visual inspection criteria to verify colors or something similar. Then it may be worthwhile to do an MSA.
 
#9
A lot will depend on your auditor. Most of us normal people use "visual inspection" to look for obvious defects and issues -- i.e.; is the package damaged when taken off the truck, scratches, is the hole there, etc. Don't really need an MSA for that. Of course if you put that into your control plan, then all heck breaks loose when a goofy auditor comes in and wants to see the MSA. We get around it by making it a reference note in our control plan as opposed to a "control" item. Stupid if you ask me.

Contrast that from a situation where you using visual inspection criteria to verify colors or something similar. Then it may be worthwhile to do an MSA.
I agree completely! :bonk:
 
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