IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customers

[Crimpshrine13]

We run into some similar issues, too.

Example: Japanese OEMs do not require to have TS certification, but some customers in the U.S. require certification to TS, because they just write their supplier manual based on what's written on TS standard. One of the customer requires TS certification although their customer (Japanese OEM) does not require it. We had a situation where the 3rd party auditor asked us if we had confirmed if the customer was okay with ISO certification of our parent company because we supply some parts made by them, then when I could not provide our customer waiver, they would write up a CAR. To this day, I still ask their purchasing department for their purchasing policy, and I get no response.

I hate when they do this to everyone, doing one size fits all thing. Automotive industry is supported by many small companies including small local mom & pop shops that have incredible craftsmanship, and they need to realize that not all businesses are capable to be run the same manner.

 

[Golfman25]

Re: Differences between IATF16949:2016 vs TS16949:2009

Get ready. The rules now require that all automotive products/process go thru TS regardless if your customer wants it or not. So you can get dinged on TS things that will leave your customer shaking his head because he doesn't really care about it.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

The rules now require that all automotive products/process go thru TS regardless if your customer wants it or not.

That's probably the biggest mistake the IATF could have made, in my opinion.

To mandate that the scope of the audit mandatorily include the product lines from automotive customers which do not subscribe to the IATF 16949 standard for it's supply chain is prone to create friction between registrants, their customers and their CB auditors and dilute the audit effectiveness for the clients which mandate the certification.

In the aerospace sector, CB's are expected to spread the audit time in proportion of the organization's aero customers, which, in many cases, does not make much sense either.

If I had my way, one of the changes I would make to the accredited management system certification is to ensure, during the audit planning that, auditors only spend time assessing aspects of the system connected with issues for customers which mandate certification.

It makes zero sense for 3[sup]rd[/sup] party auditors to spend time assessing processes and systems "on behalf" of customers which don't recognize 3[sup]rd[/sup] party certificates.

 

[Sebastian]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

It makes zero sense for 3[sup]rd[/sup] party auditors to spend time assessing processes and systems "on behalf" of customers which don't recognize 3[sup]rd[/sup] party certificates.

Company I work for, every year has example of design and development of product for automotive OEM not requiring TS.
Company I work for, every year does not have example of design and development of product for automotive OEM requiring TS. It has every ~3 years.

Using which of these samples, 3rd party auditor should audit this process ?

P.S.
Discussion is changing direction so it has to be edited somehow and renamed accordingly.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

Discussion is changing direction so it has to be edited somehow and renamed accordingly.

I created this new thread to address your comment.

One thing not mentioned yet is the fact that, if CB auditors will now be expected to audit the product lines from non-IATF 16949 subscribing customers, at the suppliers, wouldn't confidentiality aspects be even more sensitive?

Why should an organization grant access to a CB auditor to audit, for example, a Toyota product line with proprietary technology? Some will say: but the CB has a Non Disclosure Agreement. What about the scenario where the CB auditor might be witnessed by an IATF oversight auditor, who, likely work for an automotive OEM who, would love to see such proprietary technology.

I smell conflict of interest...

 

[al40]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

Good comments. I am already hearing from my external auditors that we need to plan on additional time for them to cover all the requirements for the IATF and now my team is spending time trying to ensure we cover all of our customers that could care less about a IATF cert. A lot of manpower and cost is being added to maintain this we are now discussing dropping back to ISO 9001.

Bets wishes,
Al40

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

Good comments. I am already hearing from my external auditors that we need to plan on additional time for them to cover all the requirements for the IATF and now my team is spending time trying to ensure we cover all of our customers that could care less about a IATF cert. A lot of manpower and cost is being added to maintain this we are now discussing dropping back to ISO 9001.

Bets wishes,
Al40

This addition of time by the CB smacks of bloodsucking- the rules do not talk about the number of customers as a criteria for adding time.

 

[QualitySpirit]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

I have been to several client sites where none of their clients (Toyota, Honda) cares about TS certification. These clients think it is cool to get TS certificates to attach on the walls.

If the requirement will be that products/processes of customers not requiring certification must not be audited, then we can't audit/certify these sites at all.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

I have been to several client sites where none of their clients (Toyota, Honda) cares about TS certification. These clients think it is cool to get TS certificates to attach on the walls.

Can you name the organizations? I find hard to believe any organization would freely and voluntarily seek certification to the TS 16949 standard without being formally required to do so.

 

[QualitySpirit]

Re: IATF 16949 Audits to include Processes and Products from Non Subscribing Customer

Can you name the organizations? I find hard to believe any organization would freely and voluntarily seek certification to the TS 16949 standard without being formally required to do so.

Hi, I am sorry that I can't give the names in this public forum. The situation in my country may be different from your country.

I have been to several organizations seek certification with reasons other than customer requirements.

Some of them want the certification for advertisement;

Some of them have to get certification because their CEO wants to keep a tight standard;

Some of them want it to make sure that they can readily expand their business to customers who require TS;

This is what happens here