IATF 16949 Calibration Laboratory Scope

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#21
True, but you can make your position VERY clear to the CB (they have a year to "straighten out" this auditor) and you have writ your intentions large: "Don't Mess With Me". You are, after all, the customer. The auditor is there to verify compliance, not be making stuff up. Apart from cross-fit gyms, I can't think of another place you pay to do all the work. Don't allow your IATF 16949 Certification to become that place...
I wish more people looked at it this way. You, as the organization being audited, are the customer. The auditor is an employee of your service supplier.

How would your customer handle a situation where you are not supplying the product or service they are paying for?

As I've said before, when a registrar is no longer providing me with a value added service, i find another one that will.

You don't have to be concerned with making an auditor happy, especially if they are wrong. You can let your registrar know you don't want that particular auditor back.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

jmsaunders21

Starting to get Involved
#22
Hi, I am at a company going through IATF certification in March 2021. If we have an outside calibration service provider do all of our calibration. Does my company still need to produce a lab scope ???
 

Johnnymo62

Haste Makes Waste
#23
Yes, if you have a lab, you need to document what you test or evaluate, list the equipment, methods and standards. Please see the definitions for laboratory and laboratory scope on page 12 of the IATF16949 standard.
 
#24
I'm going to hop in with another calibration/lab question.

We received a major for having a pin gauge without an ANAB cert. It came with a NIST cert and we note that it was checked with a calibrated micrometer to verify it was the correct size (we only have 1 size) prior to putting in service, but the auditor claimed since we didn't state the serial of the micrometer (we only have 1), all traceability is lost. Her justification was that the cert on the pins didn't matter since it didn't have a ANAB logo and the micrometer check doesn't count since we didn't put in the serial down.

I know the rules for outside calibration require the logo/scope/etc, but I've never had an auditor say that even purchased NIST traceable pin gauges and newly purchased test equipment have to come with a cert with an ANAB logo. A lot of our equipment is cheap off-the-shelf things like light meters that are already cheaper to re-buy as new NIST-certified equipment than calibrate old ones, but if we have to buy then send out for calibration on everything prior to first use it seems like a waste so I wanted to see what others have run into.

It makes sense if it had been overlooked in every prior audit but our new auditor had more than a few questionable/incorrect findings so I don't trust her judgement.
 

Ashland78

Involved In Discussions
#25
I think the auditor was correct. I have been in like situation. You must have traceability if you are IATF.

Yes, I agree light meters and pin gage are cheaper to buy new, but you have to prove it was acceptable when new, and used throughout the year (or interval). We thought this originally, like 4 years ago and had same issue. For pin gages as well, I hope you are measuring 3 increments on it as some go through the part. Or they use the other end of pin.

Always purchase with even simple NIST certification for the first cycle. I have had thermocouples, brand new be out of tolerance upon arrival. As well as scales/ balances, even rulers. Being IATF means you consider these things.
 

dwperron

Trusted Information Resource
#26
I'm going to hop in with another calibration/lab question.

We received a major for having a pin gauge without an ANAB cert. It came with a NIST cert and we note that it was checked with a calibrated micrometer to verify it was the correct size (we only have 1 size) prior to putting in service, but the auditor claimed since we didn't state the serial of the micrometer (we only have 1), all traceability is lost. Her justification was that the cert on the pins didn't matter since it didn't have a ANAB logo and the micrometer check doesn't count since we didn't put in the serial down.

I know the rules for outside calibration require the logo/scope/etc, but I've never had an auditor say that even purchased NIST traceable pin gauges and newly purchased test equipment have to come with a cert with an ANAB logo. A lot of our equipment is cheap off-the-shelf things like light meters that are already cheaper to re-buy as new NIST-certified equipment than calibrate old ones, but if we have to buy then send out for calibration on everything prior to first use it seems like a waste so I wanted to see what others have run into.

It makes sense if it had been overlooked in every prior audit but our new auditor had more than a few questionable/incorrect findings so I don't trust her judgement.
If you were able to show traceability of the pin measurement through use of an accredited micrometer that should have been sufficient, but when an accredited tool (pin gauge) is required to make the measurement the onus is on you to provide clear, unbroken traceability. In your case that means that you have to provide evidence of which accredited tool was used to check the pin, without a record of the serial number of that tool you have no evidence. It's easier to just get an accredited calibration on your pin in this case.
As for your policy of buying tools and tossing them after the calibration "expires", replacing them with new calibrated tools, you might as well not even bother calibrating tools. When you tossed out the old tool, how did you know that is was not out of tolerance while it was being used for critical measurements? You must calibrate the tool a final time to determine if it was still in tolerance, not that the calibration date on the sticker hadn't expired. The sticker is only a snapshot in time that the tool, at that time, was in tolerance.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C IATF 16949:2016 Major NC pertaining to 7.1.5.2.1 Calibration/verification records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
M IATF 16949 SI # 10: Integrated self-calibration of measurement equipment- Needs for explanation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
J IATF 16949 Calibration/Verification records question ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 6
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Casana IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - On Site Calibration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
N IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - Calibration of Nikon machine in factory IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 24
I IATF 16949, accredited logos, calibration capabilities, etc. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 17
B IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 FAQ #7 Audit Finding - External Calibration Laboratory IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
sswaim IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 External Calibration Laboratory Requirelents IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
J Calibration/Verification Records (IATF 16949 7.1.5.2.1) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
E IATF 16949 Cl. 7.1.5.2.1 - Calibration and Verification Records Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
M Producing IATF 16949 compliant calibration certificates IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 24
B IATF 16949 - 7.1.5.3.1 Internal calibration laboratory requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
J IATF 16949 Cl. 7.1.5.2.1 - Gauges (Measuring Jigs) Calibration/Verification Records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
M Clarification on Calibration/Verification Records 7.1.5.2.1d (IATF 16949) General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 11
B Calibration/Verification Records - IATF 16949 section 7.1.5.2.1 f) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
P IATF 16949 Cl. 7.1.5.2.1 "Calibration/Verification Records" Interpretation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
D Preparing for IATF 16949 Letter of Conformance Stage 1 audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
D Is it required to have the operator initial their work in the IATF 16949:2016 standard? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
X IATF 16949 Section 3.2 Change of ownership IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Sidney Vianna Tesla Lacks Major Automotive Quality Certifications such as IATF 16949 and ISO 9001 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
W Looking for IATF 16949 (and ISO 17025) QMS software Suggestions Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 8
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News IATF News - Top 10 IATF 16949 nonconformities and more..... IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B IATF 16949 clause 10.2 - requirements following a customer complaint. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
R How many process maps are adequate for a company for IATF 16949? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 17
O IATF 16949 News Upcoming Changes to IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
V IATF 16949 GM CSR 10.2.4 Error-proofing requirement IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.2 - On the job training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L IATF 16949 8.3 Exclusions Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
D IATF 16949 7.3.1 Awareness- Supplemental IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q IATF 16949 8.4.2.4 Supplier Monitoring IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
J Implementation, establishment and certification of IATF 16949. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
xfngrs 3 year audit cycle IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
D IATF 16949 Process Map IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 19
Vader22 IATF 16949 extended manufacturing site help IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
D IATF 16949 Certification and Letter of Conformance expiry (Help!!!) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
D AS9100 VS IATF 16949 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Ashland78 Need IATF 16949 ISO Gap Analysis Excel File Internal Auditing 3
T Justification of "Design Excluded" in IATF 16949 Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
Sidney Vianna Job Opening in the USA - IATF 16949 Lead Auditor Position Job Openings, Consulting and Employment Opportunities 0
Ron Rompen IATF 16949 8.5.1.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
P IATF 16949:2016 Letter of conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 SI 10, External non-accredited lab IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S IATF 16949 - Summary at a glance Clause wise - changes from ISO TS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
T IATF 16949 Recording inspection results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 M&TE Laboratory scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
D Bulk Materials (Greases) and IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom