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IATF 16949 CAR - Internal Auditor Requirements

#1
Hi to everyone in Cove from the heart of California. I'm new to this group and I just want to say I am blessed to be able to utilize this website to go through my IATF audit with 8 minor NC. I have less than 1 year of experience in this field, Quality in general, that's how useful this forum is!!!:D:D


So my concern are, we had a non-conformance for not having anyone in our facility be "IATF" certify as a internal auditor. I argue my point that in the standard itself it doesn't state such thing but as long as we have a program in place... Am I right or wrong?

Another concern is product audit. I'm just stuck on the frequency of the audit. Should it be a monthly thing? Should it be a Quarterly thing? Day by Day thing? We are a value add company (adding brackets, harness to units we order). Everything is hands on, no automated system.

Thanks in advance everyone.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
The CAR is a nonsense one. There is no such thing - BTW this is a typical finding for IATF auditors who are grasping at straws. Reject it to your CB management asking them to cite the REQUIREMENT in the IATF clause which makes this necessary. It's NOT there!

Product audit is, in my experience, driven by issues such as internal and customer feedback, age of product, changes to processes and so on. It doesn't have to be a one size fits all frequency. We had problems of labeling and with assemblies, so our frequency was higher and we did the audits earlier in the process (not just dock audits)
 
#4
Thanks Andy for the replies. I will definitely contact my CB.

For the Product Audit, do you guys do sampling or full W/O audit? And who performs the audit?

TIA
We trained a tech. from the Quality Dept. We sampled. It will ultimately depend on where in the process you check what. So, closer to shipping will include dunnage condition, labeling and so on.
 
#5
We trained a tech. from the Quality Dept. We sampled. It will ultimately depend on where in the process you check what. So, closer to shipping will include dunnage condition, labeling and so on.
Thanks Andy for your inputs. I now have a picture of how I can incorporate product audit to our organization. I truly appreciate it. :agree:
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Hi to everyone in Cove from the heart of California. I'm new to this group and I just want to say I am blessed to be able to utilize this website to go through my IATF audit with 8 minor NC. I have less than 1 year of experience in this field, Quality in general, that's how useful this forum is!!!:D:D


So my concern are, we had a non-conformance for not having anyone in our facility be "IATF" certify as a internal auditor. I argue my point that in the standard itself it doesn't state such thing but as long as we have a program in place... Am I right or wrong?

Another concern is product audit. I'm just stuck on the frequency of the audit. Should it be a monthly thing? Should it be a Quarterly thing? Day by Day thing? We are a value add company (adding brackets, harness to units we order). Everything is hands on, no automated system.

Thanks in advance everyone.
You can search my posts and see me write that that is was will be "required" even though the standard doesn't.

You are required to show internal auditor competency for various things which are laid out in the standard. I suspect the auditor will want to see some form of training and/or experience. It's a black hole as they are viewing it from their experience and requirements of a lot of ongoing training. You may want to post the exact wording of the finding before you appeal. Folks here can give you better advice from there.

Frequency of product audit should be based on risk and past issues. We do very little product audit as at this point of our career it is of little value. We actually do it by customer -- bigger customers get more audits. We do it by checklist and work back from the shipping dock. Good luck.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
So my concern are, we had a non-conformance for not having anyone in our facility be "IATF" certify as a internal auditor. I argue my point that in the standard itself it doesn't state such thing but as long as we have a program in place... Am I right or wrong?
While there is no requirement for internal auditors being certified by IATF, we have to remember that, in the automotive context, many OEM's have their own Customer Specific Requirements. In some of them, for example from the VW group, there are specific requirements for the qualifications of internal auditors and the performance of product audits.

Knowing your customer base and their specific requirements is KEY.
 

sistoiv

Involved In Discussions
#8
See also

elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/threads/iatf-16949-is-certified-internal-auditor-mandatory.75970/

CB'auditors "must" sell courses performed by their organization...
 
Last edited:

Ashland78

Starting to get Involved
#9
Hi to everyone in Cove from the heart of California. I'm new to this group and I just want to say I am blessed to be able to utilize this website to go through my IATF audit with 8 minor NC. I have less than 1 year of experience in this field, Quality in general, that's how useful this forum is!!!:D:D


So my concern are, we had a non-conformance for not having anyone in our facility be "IATF" certify as a internal auditor. I argue my point that in the standard itself it doesn't state such thing but as long as we have a program in place... Am I right or wrong?

Another concern is product audit. I'm just stuck on the frequency of the audit. Should it be a monthly thing? Should it be a Quarterly thing? Day by Day thing? We are a value add company (adding brackets, harness to units we order). Everything is hands on, no automated system.

Thanks in advance everyone.
Very good question...yes, there should be so many certified 'Internal IATF16949' auditors, and this can be obtained however your quality system specifies. My company requires 3 day training, with test in order to be certified and all auditors have to remain current by participating in two audits a year as a lead or secondary auditor annually. We schedule all of our audits (the entire IATF standard over a 3 year period) quarterly in assigned teams. This plan is approved by our president each March (as that is according to our quality manual). Hope this helps, I also have kept all certifications of our 16 internal auditors on file to show when this gets questioned.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#10
See also

elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/threads/iatf-16949-is-certified-internal-auditor-mandatory.75970/

CB'auditors "must" sell courses performed by their organization...
Where do you get that? I've been auditing for almost 19 years and I have yet to say "Take one of our courses" just as when I was teaching (about 200 lead auditor courses alone) never did I once recommend us to provide certification services..........Those are lines not to be crossed.
 
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