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Informational IATF 16949 certification requirement for Tier 2/Tier 3 Suppliers

lakshit

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hi Friends,
We are a Stainless Steel (SS) manufacturing unit and manufacture SS sheets, strips and coils. We are supplying SS to a company that makes auto components of the SS supplied and in turn supplies that components to OEM.
Now my customer wants me to get certified to IATF 16949. Can anyone please guide me whether it is really mandatory for me to get certified and what clause of the standard says so, as I will in that case have to present a case study to the management.

(We do not manufature any component, just flat SS sheets and strips are made and sold).


Regards
Lakshit Seth
 
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antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
The only item I have found in IATF 16949 :
Quote of item 8.4.2.3 on supplier development (Tier 2....):
"c) certification to ISO 9001 with compliance to other customer-defined
QMS reqts (such as minimum automotive QMS reqts for sub-Tier
suppliers) through second-party audits"
Unquote​
On the other hand if YOUR customer requires you to go for IATF 16949 then I think you have to comply to that customer specific requirement.
You can always discuss with your customer.

The "minimum automotive QMS requirements for sub-Tier suppliers" you can find on the IATF global site.

Best regards,
Antoine
 
Last edited:

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#3
As is typical in automotive, stuff rolls downhill. The standard requires your customer to "encourage" you to seek certification to IATF 16949. Several steps are suggested. That's why you have the request. Now whether you have to, or want to, seek IATF will be a business decision on your part. The key factors are how important is this customer and how much auto business do you do. Most likely you should be fine with ISO for a while. Good luck.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Hi Friends,
We are a Stainless Steel (SS) manufacturing unit and manufacture SS sheets, strips and coils. We are supplying SS to a company that makes auto components of the SS supplied and in turn supplies that components to OEM.
Now my customer wants me to get certified to IATF 16949. Can anyone please guide me whether it is really mandatory for me to get certified and what clause of the standard says so, as I will in that case have to present a case study to the management.

(We do not manufature any component, just flat SS sheets and strips are made and sold).


Regards
Lakshit Seth
The way I am interpreting your question...it doesn't make sense to me why you, being a 3rd Tier, maybe 4th Tier that they would require you to be Registered to IATF 16949. You are, in my opinion, consider a raw material supplier.

But that is just my opinion. :)
 

lakshit

Starting to get Involved
#5
Thanks everyone for the support. I will discuss the same with my customer and get back if I have any further quesries.


Regards
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
The way I am interpreting your question...it doesn't make sense to me why you, being a 3rd Tier, maybe 4th Tier that they would require you to be Registered to IATF 16949. You are, in my opinion, consider a raw material supplier.

But that is just my opinion. :)
Where do you see an exception for raw material suppliers?
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Where do you see an exception for raw material suppliers?
First, I would never require my Raw Material Suppliers to be Registered to IATF16949. That would be a complete waste of money and time, for something as simple as furnishing SS to customers. Even providing raw material to Aerospace, as far as I remember, would not require the Raw Material Supplier to be registered.

This particular issue states that he furnishes to an automotive 2nd or 3rd Tier level and other customers SS sheet metal. The customer will use this SS to make parts by stamping, cutting and the likes and furnish it to their customers as finished goods, or sub-assemblies. Let's be realistic. :notme:

Are you saying that any raw material furnished, if it is an Aerospace, Automotive, Medical Customer, they would be required to be Registered to AS9100, IATF 16949, and ISO13485?

I was providing my opinion on this. Each person will have their own opinion on this. :cool:
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
First, I would never require my Raw Material Suppliers to be Registered to IATF16949. That would be a complete waste of money and time, for something as simple as furnishing SS to customers. Even providing raw material to Aerospace, as far as I remember, would not require the Raw Material Supplier to be registered.

This particular issue states that he furnishes to an automotive 2nd or 3rd Tier level and other customers SS sheet metal. The customer will use this SS to make parts by stamping, cutting and the likes and furnish it to their customers as finished goods, or sub-assemblies. Let's be realistic. :notme:

Are you saying that any raw material furnished, if it is an Aerospace, Automotive, Medical Customer, they would be required to be Registered to AS9100, IATF 16949, and ISO13485?

I was providing my opinion on this. Each person will have their own opinion on this. :cool:
Your opinion is fine. And I tend to agree. The problem is IATF 16949 (I don't know about the other standards). IATF requires companies to "develop" their supply chains' QMS. There are several steps, starting with ISO 9001 and ending with IATF certification. Thus, you will be required to show the auditors "what you are doing to comply" with that requirement. I live this dream each year. We have many suppliers, raw material and other, than aren't going IATF. They would rather not sell to us. We have to figure out how to dance around it each audit. It's painful, especially when you see how unnecessary it is.
 

Scanton

Wearer of many hats
#10
I work for a manufacturing company and we make metal components, some of which are for the automotive industry.
Our Company – Our Customer – Their Customer – OEM
We had ISO16949 (we now have IATF16949) Because it makes sense for our business and makes our automotive customers lives easier, and also sets good standards and working practices for our non-automotive manufacturing (on the whole, I obviously don’t think everything in the standard is great for us)
So I can understand why your customer has requested this, however I also believe it needs to be right for your business too as it is a big undertaking and a hefty thing to maintain for a small business.

On the subject of raw material suppliers needing IATF16949, my understanding is that as long as it is a “raw material” ISO9001 is the minimum requirement.
Now this is dependent on the definition of a “raw material” being something taken in its industry standard state with no additional requirements.
So if I take the industry standard 304 stainless steel in 3 meter bars in bundles of 1,000 Kg, that is a “raw material”, however if I require it to be cut into 150mm length billets to specifically fit my process, it is no longer a “raw material” and becomes a specified material or component material, as messing up the billet size could have an impact on the quality of the end product.

Shoot me down in flames if this doesn’t make sense or you don’t agree, however this is my understanding of where the line is drawn.
 
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