IATF 16949 Cl. 4.3.2 - CSR vs Commercial Agreements

Bran

Involved In Discussions
#1
IATF 16949 clause 4.3.2 states: "Customer-specific requirements shall be evaluated and included in the scope of the organization's quality management system."

If a supply agreement states that the seller does not agree to the customer's existing IATF CSR, and is signed by both the seller and the customer at the onset of new business, would this be sufficient for the seller to not include the existing CSR into the scope of their QMS?

At what point (if any) do commercial agreements between companies supersede IATF requirements?
 
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Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#2
CSR are issued/approved by person 1. Commercial agreement is signed by person 2.
Person 2 has "higher" authority than person 1? To be diplomatic I say - "Interesting".
 

GRP

Involved In Discussions
#3
I think the OP states that CSRs are issued by person 1. Then a commercial agreement is signed by person 1 and 2. In this commercial agreement person 1, who issued the CSR, grants person 2 a waiver to said requirements.
 

Bran

Involved In Discussions
#4
I think the OP states that CSRs are issued by person 1. Then a commercial agreement is signed by person 1 and 2. In this commercial agreement person 1, who issued the CSR, grants person 2 a waiver to said requirements.
This is mostly correct.

My company is IATF certified and I recently found out that the existing supply agreement between my company and one of our automotive customers contains clear wording stating that my company does not agree to the automotive customer's CSR. This supply agreement was signed by both parties at nearly a VP level.

Knowing this, but also knowing the requirements of IATF 4.3.2, do I need to include this automotive customer's CSR into the scope of my QMS? My current impression is that I can omit this automotive customer's CSR from the QMS scope, but wanted other thoughts.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
I have a list of CSR's that are referenced in our scope statement. We have a few CSR's that we had issues with. After discussion with our customers, we received waivers for those (in writing). I made a reference to those waivers in the CSR log, and added a copy of the waivers with the original CSR. We have had no compliance questions about our method.
 

Bran

Involved In Discussions
#6
After discussion with our customers, we received waivers for those (in writing). I made a reference to those waivers in the CSR log, and added a copy of the waivers with the original CSR. We have had no compliance questions about our method.
Hopefully our current auditor will consider the statement in the supply agreement a "CSR waiver", because I do intend to use it that way.

The supply agreements we are using expire at the end of each calendar year and must be renewed annually, so that adds a layer of complication. I do like the idea of adding a reference to the waiver to the CSR matrix but Ill need to have to figure out a mechanism to verify the supply agreement wording after it is signed annually.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
I do like the idea of adding a reference to the waiver to the CSR matrix but Ill need to have to figure out a mechanism to verify the supply agreement wording after it is signed annually.
My internal auditors have a copy of the CSR list applicable to the process they are auditing. They verify any waivers during the audit. It works for us.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#8
This is mostly correct.

My company is IATF certified and I recently found out that the existing supply agreement between my company and one of our automotive customers contains clear wording stating that my company does not agree to the automotive customer's CSR. This supply agreement was signed by both parties at nearly a VP level.
Whose "supply agreement" is being referred to? Was it initiated by your company or the customer?
 

Bran

Involved In Discussions
#9
Whose "supply agreement" is being referred to? Was it initiated by your company or the customer?
I am in the bulk materials industry. Auto customers will request a PPAP at the start of business to qualify our product/process, but that does not guarantee them sales, or us orders. After PPAP, a supply agreement is made with the customer which "locks in" capacity for that customer for the year - essentially setting min/max rates to which customers can order within, based on their needs. The supply agreement is key for forecasting, given NA capacity constraints for our bulk material product.

To answer your question, I don't know specifically which party initiates the supply agreement, but I do know both parties want these in place to either secure business or secure material supply. Without it, our capacity goes elsewhere
 
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