IATF 16949 Cl. 8.4.2.3 - Supplier Quality Management System Development

vincee

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#11
CRVG, I received a minor during transition audit from TS 16949 to IATF for not having a plan in place to develop the supply base that are only ISO and "compliant to" TS 16949.
What i believe is required here is to have a plan, which can be having the supply base complete a IATF gap analysis or readiness survey.
I am too hoping that someone out there has an example wiling to share of a ISO 9001 IATF gap analysis or readiness survey?
Thanks
Vince
 
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AMIT BALLAL

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#12
CRVG, I received a minor during transition audit from TS 16949 to IATF for not having a plan in place to develop the supply base that are only ISO and "compliant to" TS 16949.
What i believe is required here is to have a plan, which can be having the supply base complete a IATF gap analysis or readiness survey.
I am too hoping that someone out there has an example wiling to share of a ISO 9001 IATF gap analysis or readiness survey?
Thanks
Vince
Enclosed herewith a sample document. Feel free to edit and use.
 

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vincee

Involved In Discussions
#13
Thanks CRVG, still hoping that someone out there has an example to share of a ISO 9001 to IATF gap analysis or readiness survey?

Long story short I received a minor for item 8.4.2.3 of the standard during transition audit from TS 16949 to IATF for not having a plan in place to develop the supply base that are ISO certified only but are "compliant to" TS 16949 Std.
What I believe is required as a solution to the minor is to have a plan in place displaying suppliers are working to the IATF. Hoping someone can share an IATF gap analysis or readiness survey from ISO 9001:2009 to becoming IATF 2016.

Thanks
Vince
 
#14
CRVG, I received a minor during transition audit from TS 16949 to IATF for not having a plan in place to develop the supply base that are only ISO and "compliant to" TS 16949.
What i believe is required here is to have a plan, which can be having the supply base complete a IATF gap analysis or readiness survey.
I am too hoping that someone out there has an example wiling to share of a ISO 9001 IATF gap analysis or readiness survey?
Thanks
Vince
Who said you had to have a plan? An IATF gap analysis won't help you here.

All you need to do is inform your suppliers - many of whom will ignore you - that you require them to comply with the IATF requirements. Of course, some won't be able to, but that's another story...
 

vincee

Involved In Discussions
#15
Good Morning Andy, the Lead Auditor stated this during our audit on June 6, which I received a minor finding. According to Clause 8.4.2.3 there is a "Sanctioned Interpretation" from IATF that was effective June 1, 2018 stating "the organization shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to Develop, Implement, and Improve a QMS with the ultimate objective of becoming certified to this Automotive QMS Standard".
Prior to this "Sanctioned Interpretation", we were Compliant to all IATF's 8.4.2.3 October 2016(1st Edition) requirement's.
 
#16
Good Morning Andy, the Lead Auditor stated this during our audit on June 6, which I received a minor finding. According to Clause 8.4.2.3 there is a "Sanctioned Interpretation" from IATF that was effective June 1, 2018 stating "the organization shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to Develop, Implement, and Improve a QMS with the ultimate objective of becoming certified to this Automotive QMS Standard".
Prior to this "Sanctioned Interpretation", we were Compliant to all IATF's 8.4.2.3 October 2016(1st Edition) requirement's.
Indeed! However having a "plan" and "shall require" are 2 different things in my mind. Sending an email out to suppliers to warn them of this requirements (which, as I have experienced they will thumb their collective noses at because the "spend" you have is too small for them to bother) and having a "Plan" to develop suppliers is waaaay different. Did you auditor write the NC for not having a plan? I don't see the word plan in any IATF requirement (or SI)?
 

AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#17
Indeed! However having a "plan" and "shall require" are 2 different things in my mind. Sending an email out to suppliers to warn them of this requirements (which, as I have experienced they will thumb their collective noses at because the "spend" you have is too small for them to bother) and having a "Plan" to develop suppliers is waaaay different. Did you auditor write the NC for not having a plan? I don't see the word plan in any IATF requirement (or SI)?
Andy, agree with you that there is no shall. But, standard states a sequence towards IATF certification. Some suppliers can be upgraded directly from ISO 9001 certification to IATF if they are having enough automotive business. Whereas for others, different sequence might be needed (as specified in 8.4.2.3).

What auditor might be asking is what's their plan (documented or undocumented) to upgrade suppliers from ISO 9001 to IATF.
What you are suggesting is also fine, but is vincee's organization planning to upgrade all suppliers directly to IATF or only some of them at present? This plan he has to demonstrate (documented/ undocumented won't matter).

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AMIT BALLAL

Trusted Information Resource
#18
Good Morning Andy, the Lead Auditor stated this during our audit on June 6, which I received a minor finding. According to Clause 8.4.2.3 there is a "Sanctioned Interpretation" from IATF that was effective June 1, 2018 stating "the organization shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to Develop, Implement, and Improve a QMS with the ultimate objective of becoming certified to this Automotive QMS Standard".
Prior to this "Sanctioned Interpretation", we were Compliant to all IATF's 8.4.2.3 October 2016(1st Edition) requirement's.
How you were complying with 8.4.2.3? I would like to know in order to answer correctly. Because, only change in this clause is removal of first stage of QMS development i.e. "compliance to ISO 9001 through second party audits".

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#19
Andy, agree with you that there is no shall. But, standard states a sequence towards IATF certification. Some suppliers can be upgraded directly from ISO 9001 certification to IATF if they are having enough automotive business. Whereas for others, different sequence might be needed (as specified in 8.4.2.3).

What auditor might be asking is what's their plan (documented or undocumented) to upgrade suppliers from ISO 9001 to IATF.
What you are suggesting is also fine, but is vincee's organization planning to upgrade all suppliers directly to IATF or only some of them at present? This plan he has to demonstrate (documented/ undocumented won't matter).

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Agreed, Amit. I'm questioning the accuracy of the auditor's NC which states a "plan" isn't available...
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#20
Agreed, Amit. I'm questioning the accuracy of the auditor's NC which states a "plan" isn't available...
I think it depends on the "definition" of plan. I think what they are really looking for is some criteria as to which suppliers should have completed which step and what moves them to the next level. In our case, we where asked to become compliant with the minimum IATF standards with the statement that we wouldn't do full IATF certification due to the low volume of auto work we do. However, that will change over the years and we may kick into IATF sooner than we want. :)
 
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