IATF 16949 Cl. 8.4.2.3 - Supplier Quality Management System Development

[QualitySpirit]

It's not clear where you are getting this from. 8.4.2.3 applies only to "suppliers of automotive products and services." Requiring Office Depot to be ISO certified is silly.

Definition of supplier from ISO9000:2015
3.2.5 provider /supplier
organization (3.2.1) that provides a product (3.7.6) or a service (3.7.7)

If it only applies to suppliers of automotive products and services, all of these suppliers are eligible for IATF16949 certification.

Then the SI#8 revised should not have added the word "eligible organizations"

In addition, it adds the rationale for changes giving example scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies who provide transport and logistics support, etc.. Are scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies suppliers of automotive products and services?

And according to this SI#8 revised, scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies need ISO9001 certification, right?

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Not true any more as the new SI made it such that all suppliers not just automotive ones are applicable for this requirement e.g. minimum ISO9001 certified or customer approved+second party audit to ISO9001. Now even suppliers who supply pens, toilet papers would need ISO9001 certification by a recognized CB under IAF MLA.

Sorry to say, but interpretation is wrong. Is stationary supplier an automotive product or service supplier? Definitely not. In that case, 8.4.2.3 is not applicable to them. 8.4.2.3 is specifically for automotive products and services supplier.
Reason for sanctioned interpretation is that unless the supplier is manufacturing automotive product, they are not eligible for IATF certification. Scrap metal suppliers, logistics are not eligible for IATF certification, since they don't manufacture any automotive product.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

If it only applies to suppliers of automotive products and services, all of these suppliers are eligible for IATF16949 certification.

And according to this SI#8 revised, scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies need ISO9001 certification, right?

Unless the supplier is manufacturing an automotive product, it is not eligible for IATF16949 certification. Service suppliers are not eligible for IATF16949 certification.
The SI is nowhere saying that scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies should be ISO9001 certified. This requirement is only for suppliers of automotive products and services.

Credit of all this confusion goes to IATF.
It seems like IATF will have to release one more standard just for FAQs and SIs on IATF16949.

 

[QualitySpirit]

Service suppliers are not eligible for IATF16949 certification..

This is wrong. Organizations that do not produce any products but provide services such as Heat treatment services can be IATF16949 certified.

The SI is nowhere saying that scrap metal suppliers, trucking companies should be ISO9001 certified.

If it is not the requirement, what is the point the IATF mentioned them in the sanctioned interpretation of the requirement clause for suppliers that require ISO9001 certification or customer approval.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

This is wrong. Organizations that do not produce any products but provide services such as Heat treatment services can be IATF16949 certified.

If it is not the requirement, what is the point the IATF mentioned them in the sanctioned interpretation of the requirement clause for suppliers that require ISO9001 certification or customer approval.

Is heat treatment a service or manufacturing? I consider it manufacturing. And IATF also considers it as manufacturing. Refer IATF rules 5th edition page 6 for the same.

Purpose for release of sanctioned interpretation is to clarify that only organization manufacturing automotive product can be certified to IATF16949, others are not eligible.
If any supplier is providing automotive product or service, it has to follow the sequence of QMS development as specified in 8.4.2.3. If scrap metal suppliers, logistics coming under your organization's definition (based on functioning / your organizational needs) as automotive service supplier, then it should be ISO9001 certified.

 

[QualitySpirit]

Is heat treatment a service or manufacturing? I consider it manufacturing. And IATF also considers is as manufacturing. Refer IATF rules 5th edition page 6 for the same.

If by the scope wording, I consider heat treatment a service.

The certification scope will be -

"Manufacturing of XXX", if they produce products.

And "Provision of XXX services" if they receive parts, components or materials from their customers, process them with XXX services and deliver to customers. such as Provision of assembly services, Provision of EDP coating services, Provision of heat treatment services.

 

[QualitySpirit]

If scrap metal suppliers, logistics coming under your organization's definition (based on functioning / your organizational needs) as automotive service supplier, then it should be ISO9001 certified.

Do you mean the organization has a freedom to define by their own what service suppliers are or aren't automotive service supplier based on their functioning/ organization needs?

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

If by the scope wording, I consider heat treatment a service.

The certification scope will be -

"Manufacturing of XXX", if they produce products.

And "Provision of XXX services" if they receive parts, components or materials from their customers, process them with XXX services and deliver to customers. such as Provision of assembly services, Provision of EDP coating services, Provision of heat treatment services.

Assembly, heat treatment is manufacturing, not service. You have to follow definitions of standard, you can't use your own definitions.

 

[AMIT BALLAL]

Do you mean the organization has a freedom to define by their own what service suppliers are or aren't automotive service supplier based on their functioning/ organization needs?

IATF has not issued any definition of automotive services, hence its open for interpretation.

 

[QualitySpirit]

Assembly, heat treatment is manufacturing, not service. You have to follow definitions of standard, you can't use your own definitions.

Ok. In your opinion, if an organization does not buy any materials/components to produce their own products but they have assembly lines/heat treatment lines and workers and their business is to process components/materials supplied from their customers and deliver assembled/heat treated automotive products to the customers.

1) Are they eligible for IATF16949 certification?
2) If they are eligible what would the CB write as the scope of certification in their IATF16949 certificate?