IATF 16949 - Cl. 8.4.2.3 - Which type of suppliers could be exempt of ISO 9001

[Scanton]

8.4.2.3. States: The Organization (That's me) shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to develop, implement, and improve a quality management system certified to ISO9001.

None of my suppliers supply automotive products or automotive services, just raw materials, tools, lubricants, packing etc but none of these could be considered an automotive product or automotive service.

My company however do supply components to a 2nd tier automotive supplier, so what we produce could be considered an automotive product, and we already hold ISO/TS 16949 (about to transition to IATF 16949)

The majority of our suppliers already have a legitimate ISO 9001 certification, so no problems there, but the ones that don't have absolutely nothing to do with the automotive industry.

Why include "automotive products and services" if the intention is any and/or all suppliers?

Am I understanding this correctly or am I just missing the point?

 

[Golfman25]

8.4.2.3. States: The Organization (That's me) shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to develop, implement, and improve a quality management system certified to ISO9001.

None of my suppliers supply automotive products or automotive services, just raw materials, tools, lubricants, packing etc but none of these could be considered an automotive product or automotive service.

My company however do supply components to a 2nd tier automotive supplier, so what we produce could be considered an automotive product, and we already hold ISO/TS 16949 (about to transition to IATF 16949)

The majority of our suppliers already have a legitimate ISO 9001 certification, so no problems there, but the ones that don't have absolutely nothing to do with the automotive industry.

Why include "automotive products and services" if the intention is any and/or all suppliers?

Am I understanding this correctly or am I just missing the point?

It is not all suppliers. It is those that would be considered part of the "automotive" supply chain. So you have a supplier that provides raw material that you turn into an automotive part. He's covered. The guy that sends raw material that you turn into a commercial part -- not covered. I would focus on 8.4.1.1 and suppliers that "affect customer requirements" (along with the listed categories). If in doubt, I'd leave it out. If you get hit during audit, you can "correct" it then. Good luck.

 

[qusys]

Consider also point C of the requirement where it is mentioned the conformity to other requirements of quality mgmt. system defined by customer ( for instance MAQMSR) , by means of second party audit

 

[JASONFAULK]

Hello All, I am new to the forum.
My situation is as follows; Automotive comprises a small percentage of our overall business. I have a customer recently certified to IATF 16949 that is making the case that we must be certified to IATF. We are currently ISO 9001-2015 certified and see no improvement that will be made by obtaining the IATF certification vs 9001-2015. I have read section 8.4.3.2 several times and believe we meet the requirements as stated ; as a supplier to our customer. Thoughts?

 

[howste]

Hi Jason, and welcome to the forums.

Hello All, I am new to the forum.
My situation is as follows; Automotive comprises a small percentage of our overall business. I have a customer recently certified to IATF 16949 that is making the case that we must be certified to IATF. We are currently ISO 9001-2015 certified and see no improvement that will be made by obtaining the IATF certification vs 9001-2015. I have read section 8.4.3.2 several times and believe we meet the requirements as stated ; as a supplier to our customer. Thoughts?

Please also look at the recently published "sanctioned interpretations". They seem to support your position. However, if your customer still wants to make it a requirement that your system be certified, they could move the work to another supplier if you don't. At that point you would need to decide if their business was worth it.

 

[Golfman25]

Hello All, I am new to the forum.
My situation is as follows; Automotive comprises a small percentage of our overall business. I have a customer recently certified to IATF 16949 that is making the case that we must be certified to IATF. We are currently ISO 9001-2015 certified and see no improvement that will be made by obtaining the IATF certification vs 9001-2015. I have read section 8.4.3.2 several times and believe we meet the requirements as stated ; as a supplier to our customer. Thoughts?

You don't have to be certified to IATF. But you do need to have a plan to "progress" in that direction (their working is "ultimate objective") whatever that means. Unfortunately, your customer seems to be taking the no thinking, easy way out of just passing the requirements down. This way they don't have to do anything in their audit except show their supplier certs. Good luck.

 

[Scanton]

My auditor seemed only to be interested in suppliers that provided something that actually went into the product like raw material and subcontract processes like heat treatment and plating. These seemed to be deemed as suppliers of automotive products and services as their outputs ended up in the end product.

Once again you can argue the rights and wrongs of it, however that was the interpretation during my audit.