IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.2.4.1 Second Party Audits (Supplier Management)

[wildbill72]

Uh oh!

 

[O'Leary]

Yes I understood her answer. I have addressed in my procedures that 2nd party audits are one of many ways to monitor the performance of suppliers. I guess it depends on the products and services you provide to determine if and when you will perform these. I have a documented risk assessment that resulted in no negative impact to not performing 2nd party audits of my suppliers at this time.

These may be needed for some organizations.

 

[Sebastian]

Need, type, frequency and scope you can decide, but decision "no need at all" for all suppliers is not compliant to this requirement. I understand this is OK according to your auditor evaluation. Stay with that, but keep in mind, other auditor can evaluate it as nonconformity.

 

[O'Leary]

Agreed

 

[malasuerte]

I just had my Stage 1 audits and asked my auditor about this. As long as your suppliers are 3rd party certified, you do not need to perform the 2nd party audits.

Not sure how you auditor can tell you this? The clause explicitly states that you must have a "second-party audit process".

It goes on to state you must have records of the second-part audit.

It states also that you must document: need, type, frequency and scope of the audits.

For the OP, if your Purchasing group is conducting these assessments, you should ensure they are trained to do the audits, and then meet all the requirements of the clauses.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Not sure how you auditor can tell you this? The clause explicitly states that you must have a "second-party audit process".

I don't have a copy of the IATF 16949:2016 Standard, but the presentation material available online mentions that supplier QMS development goes all the way to supplier accredited certification to IATF 16949. So, it seems me that second party audits are not mandatory if the supplier has the proper certification. For those cases WHEN 2[sup]nd[/sup] party audits are used,

Section 8.4.2.4.1: Second-party audits
• This new section aligns customer-specific requirements into the IATF 16949 standard.
• Second-party audits should consider issues relevant to the organization beyond simply the maturity of their QMS development.
• Examples of situations that could trigger a second-party audit include: input from supplier performance indicators; risk assessment results and follow-up of open issues from process and product audits; and new development launch readiness.
• The organization's criteria for determining the need, type, frequency, and scope of second-party audits must be based on a risk analysis

 

[Sebastian]

Supplier development process is described by 8.4.2.3 and second party audits are sub-clause of supplier monitoring 8.4.2.4.
There is no way to not perform a second party audit at all. Suppliers certification status is one of criteria to determine whether there is a need or not to perform second party audit in case of certain supplier, but there are still other ones as e.g. supplier performance. So "no process" due to all suppliers are IATF certified requires n/c.

 

[malasuerte]

I don't have a copy of the IATF 16949:2016 Standard, but the presentation material available online mentions that supplier QMS development goes all the way to supplier accredited certification to IATF 16949. So, it seems me that second party audits are not mandatory if the supplier has the proper certification. For those cases WHEN 2[sup]nd[/sup] party audits are used,

IATF Clause 8.4.2.4.1 Second Party Audits

The organization shall include a second-party audit process in their supplier management approach.

Second-party audits may be used for the following:
-supplier risk assessment
-supplier monitoring
-supplier QMS development
-product audits
-process audits

"....the organization shall document criteria for second-party audits"
"....the organization shall retain records of second part audits."

[/LIST]

 

[mbehmazia]

Hello,

I am not sure if this is in the correct section so pardon me ahead of time.

The way I am reading the new IATF requirements, since my company is going for our IATF16949:2016 registration audit, our lead auditor is telling us that all of our Tier II suppliers must all be IATF certified also. I don't interpret that clause of IATF that way. I think that we can "approve" our suppliers via second party audits. Can any one agree or disagree with this observation? Thanks.

 

[Golfman25]

Hello,

I am not sure if this is in the correct section so pardon me ahead of time.

The way I am reading the new IATF requirements, since my company is going for our IATF16949:2016 registration audit, our lead auditor is telling us that all of our Tier II suppliers must all be IATF certified also. I don't interpret that clause of IATF that way. I think that we can "approve" our suppliers via second party audits. Can any one agree or disagree with this observation? Thanks.

See 8.4.2.3. It gives the hierarchy. They basically want ISO 9001 certification with an "objective" of getting IATF certification. I don't see that happening for a lot of the supply chain.