IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.2.4.1 Second Party Audits (Supplier Management)

[Marc]

A quick note: It has been reported that this discussion thread and IATF 16949 - Cl. 8.4.2.3 - Which type of suppliers could be exempt of ISO 9001 are essentially the same.

 

[qusys]

Questions for all if you want to clarify:

How to meet 8.4.2.3. Development of supplier QMS for an organization that is ISO TS certified ( and ongoing for IATF) and Tiers 3 to their suppliers? Lot of those suppliers are ISO9001 but not ISO TS certified. Besides, how to make leverage on them for IATF compliance with second party audit?

 

[Golfman25]

Questions for all if you want to clarify:

How to meet 8.4.2.3. Development of supplier QMS for an organization that is ISO TS certified ( and ongoing for IATF) and Tiers 3 to their suppliers? Lot of those suppliers are ISO9001 but not ISO TS certified. Besides, how to make leverage on them for IATF compliance with second party audit?

I think you need to be careful what you ask for. IATF 16949 isn't for everybody and isn't needed for a lot of companies. Why they constantly drive for everyone in the supply chain to be certified can only mean they seek more money. Your "leverage" will depend upon where you are in the supply chain. Most of my key suppliers are ISO and will not be going IATF ever. And they don't really have to -- it would be extreme overkill given what they supply and how good they supply it. Frankly, my focus would be on "are my suppliers any good" regardless of any certification. Then I would see what I can work around in regards to IATF. Good luck.

 

[qusys]

Appreciate... How to proceed with second party audit and check their compliance to IATF 16949, even though they are not certified? It seems to only a difficult desiderata. Compliance to IATF is not only related to FMEA, Control Plan etc but many other things. such as MSA, SPC, etc etc and many other requirement. Besides, there could be the issue of the distance of suppliers in other continents ( Asia, America)

 

[Golfman25]

Appreciate... How to proceed with second party audit and check their compliance to IATF 16949, even though they are not certified? It seems to only a difficult desiderata. Compliance to IATF is not only related to FMEA, Control Plan etc but many other things. such as MSA, SPC, etc etc and many other requirement. Besides, there could be the issue of the distance of suppliers in other continents ( Asia, America)

Unless they specifically tried, they will not be in compliance. There are too many mandates in IATF to expect compliance without the supplier working on a compliant system. So the first question you need to ask is do they have to comply and what if they don't.

 

[malasuerte]

And to take this a step further:

1) Determine if any of your suppliers even need to be included. I am part of an org with 1000's of supplier and when it comes down to it, we only end up requiring a handful of suppliers be IATF conforming.
---ie The supplier that provides sundries, etc. does not need to be certified!

2) Once determined, then that supplier needs to be on the path to IATF. They don't just jump from nothing to everything!

 

[Mrs Tucker]

We just got back a "self-audit" we send before going out to do the supplier audit and I need help understanding one of the answers:

Question:
Special characteristics are parameters / processes identified and passed down to suppliers from their customers.
a) When special characteristics are provided are they flowed down to employee work instructions?

Answer: Special Process definition is n/a to REALS material


What is REALS MATERIAL ????

 

[Golfman25]

We just got back a "self-audit" we send before going out to do the supplier audit and I need help understanding one of the answers:

Question:
Special characteristics are parameters / processes identified and passed down to suppliers from their customers.
a) When special characteristics are provided are they flowed down to employee work instructions?

Answer: Special Process definition is n/a to REALS material


What is REALS MATERIAL ????

I would ask the person you filled out the self audit. Maybe a typo or some internal jargon?

 

[Peters]

What about applicability of 8.4.2.3 c):

c) certification to ISO 9001 with compliance to other customer-defined QMS requirements (such as Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppliers [MAQMSR] or equivalent) through second-party audits;

If customer didn't defined CSR to 8.4.2.3 - clause c) is applicable or not applicable?

 

[Sebastian]

Your c) is currently b).
When there are no customer requirements you skip b)-stage and go directly to c)-stage, but I think in most cases there is a minimum one customer's requirement which affects supplier and exceeds ISO 9001 requirements and can be audited.