IATF 16949 "if required by the customer"

K

kylerf

#1
Why does the new standard bother saying "if required by the customer" in the standard?

For example: 8.5.1.1- "If required by the customer, the organization shall obtain customer approval after review or revision of the control plan."

If you are not doing something that the customer requires you to do, it would already be a nonconformity as it is so it doesn't make much sense to me to put that in the standard. Thoughts?



Also something that doesn't make much sense to me is "the organization shall, as applicable".
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
#3
re: IATF 16949 "if required by the customer"

Why does the new standard bother saying "if required by the customer" in the standard?

For example: 8.5.1.1- "If required by the customer, the organization shall obtain customer approval after review or revision of the control plan."
Probably because they want auditors to pay attention to this. Auditors should be sampling from customer-specific requirements. Putting this in the standard ensures that this requirement will rise to the top of those looked at regularly.
 

Ian_Morris

Involved In Discussions
#4
re: IATF 16949 "if required by the customer"

Also something that doesn't make much sense to me is "the organization shall, as applicable".
The standard includes this statement on applicability:

"All the requirements of this International Standard are generic and are intended to be applicable to any
organization, regardless of its type or size, or the products and services it provides."

Not all organisations will have the same requirements and not all organisations will have processes that relate to certain clauses.

I work in professional services now, having worked in manufacturing and engineering for a long time and an example of difference would be that we do not use measuring equipment to validate the work that we do. Therefore this clause would not be applicable to our business and could be a stated exclusion.

Hope this helps.:2cents:
 
K

kylerf

#5
re: IATF 16949 "if required by the customer"

Just to clear up any confusion,

does that mean that whenever "as applicable" is used then it is still a requirement? as long as the organization can conform to it?

for example: "The organization shall include in the control plan: as applicable"

with that clause, if you make parts and have control plans then it is a requirement to have first/last part validation, right?
 
B

BoardGuy

#6
re: IATF 16949 "if required by the customer"

Just to clear up any confusion,

does that mean that whenever "as applicable" is used then it is still a requirement? as long as the organization can conform to it?

for example: "The organization shall include in the control plan: as applicable"

with that clause, if you make parts and have control plans then it is a requirement to have first/last part validation, right?
No it should not be viewed as a mandatory requirement because it may not be applicable. Your organization must review the “as applicable” to determine if it applies based on the product you produce, requirements of the customer, requirements of a regulatory authority or the needs of the organization. If any of these groups say it needed or required then it is applicable to you QMS.
 

Jack Chiew

Starting to get Involved
#7
Hi Kylert
Not sure my comments are still useful to you. Your question is >2years old. I am a 3P auditor on IATF, just joining the group. The answer to your question is: customers out there are all different. And their requirements are also different. Example, OEM tend to be very stringent in their control. They want to approve any change taking place, including changes to the control plan. So you have to get their approval every time there is a change. Lower-tier customers tend to be more lax, and most of them will leave it to you to manage your business, after the PPAP stage. IATF does not want to make things mandatory when it is not required by the customers. I think that should be a welcoming piece of news.:)
 

jmech

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Background as to why the standard might bother including "if required by the customer" requirements:

I've been involved in writing other standards (not IATF 16949) where the committee added this type of requirement. One or more committee members strongly felt that we need a requirement. Other committee members felt that this requirement was not necessary or that it should be up to the customer to specify if this requirement was necessary. The compromise was to add the requirement to the standard with "if required by the customer".

I agree that it would already be a nonconformity not to meet customer requirements, so this type of requirement adds little (or no) value and tends to add confusion. However, some people feel that it draws organization and auditor attention to an area and/or that it can make it easier to transition to an "always" (not just if required by customer) requirement in the next edition.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B IATF 16949 - Is a Deviation required for sample components in a prototype build? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
Howard Atkins MSAs are now required on every feature of the control plan - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
H Documented processes required by IATF 16949 section 4.4.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
M Are COPs, SOPs, and MOPs required by IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
H New IATF 16949 required Documented Processes IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
H Documentation Required by IATF 16949 (Automotive QMS) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 38
Sidney Vianna Tesla Lacks Major Automotive Quality Certifications such as IATF 16949 and ISO 9001 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
W Looking for IATF 16949 (and ISO 17025) QMS software Suggestions Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 8
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News IATF News - Top 10 IATF 16949 nonconformities and more..... IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B IATF 16949 clause 10.2 - requirements following a customer complaint. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
C IATF 16949:2016 Major NC pertaining to 7.1.5.2.1 Calibration/verification records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
R How many process maps are adequate for a company for IATF 16949? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 17
O IATF 16949 News Upcoming Changes to IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
V IATF 16949 GM CSR 10.2.4 Error-proofing requirement IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.2 - On the job training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L IATF 16949 8.3 Exclusions Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
D IATF 16949 7.3.1 Awareness- Supplemental IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q IATF 16949 8.4.2.4 Supplier Monitoring IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
J Implementation, establishment and certification of IATF 16949. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
xfngrs 3 year audit cycle IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
D IATF 16949 Process Map IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 19
Vader22 IATF 16949 extended manufacturing site help IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
D IATF 16949 Certification and Letter of Conformance expiry (Help!!!) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
D AS9100 VS IATF 16949 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Ashland78 Need IATF 16949 ISO Gap Analysis Excel File Internal Auditing 3
T Justification of "Design Excluded" in IATF 16949 Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
Sidney Vianna Job Opening in the USA - IATF 16949 Lead Auditor Position Job Openings, Consulting and Employment Opportunities 0
Ron Rompen IATF 16949 8.5.1.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
P IATF 16949:2016 Letter of conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 SI 10, External non-accredited lab IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S IATF 16949 - Summary at a glance Clause wise - changes from ISO TS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
T IATF 16949 Recording inspection results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 M&TE Laboratory scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M IATF 16949 SI # 10: Integrated self-calibration of measurement equipment- Needs for explanation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Calibration/Verification records question ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 6
D Bulk Materials (Greases) and IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
B Remote IATF 16949 audit preparation General Auditing Discussions 10
R IATF 16949 Certification for new site with transferred product--what is the impact with CSR and scorecards? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B IATF 16949 Cert Expire- New certification body IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF 16949 - Audit of Remote Location/Support Site and IT IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
O Informational Ford Motor Company Customer Specific Requirements for IATF 16949:2016 - 08 Jan 2021 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
B Updated IATF 16949 - Will IATF 16949 get revised when ISO 9001:202X is released? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
O Release of Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) related to Rules 5th Edition and Sanctioned Interpretations related to IATF 16949:2016 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
S Thoughts on managing ISO 9001, 13485, IATF 16949 and 17025 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
P IATF 16949 requirement - error-proofing in control plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R IATF 16949 - Outsourcing of internal audits Internal Auditing 11

Similar threads

Top Bottom