IATF 16949 - Outsourcing of internal audits

#1
I recently outsourced my internal management system audits to a reputable qualified external auditor. We have IATF 16949 certification. We still conduct process and product audits using our own internal auditors. Is the outsourcing allowed as our certification body said it is not allowed during a recent audit. If not allowed, please send me the reference document where it states this. Thank you.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Totally allowed. Rather common when I last was under 16949 (been two and a half years now).
What section of the standard did they cite when stating it was not permitted?
 
#3
Thats just it...they did not cite the standard even though I asked and I have tried searching everywhere. Will have to get more clarity from them on this tomorrow but wanted to get the opinion from others. They insisting that we need to show some audits that we conduct internally using our own auditors. Thank you for your reply.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#4
Is there something in your agreement with the CB possibly? I can't imagine why they would put that in...but stranger things have happened...
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#7
Please keep copies of their competence.
I have audited companies that believed the auditors were "reputable" but had no real competence as per requirements of the standard.
Also make sure they work according to your procedure and not their own , another failing point.
Outsourcing internal audits is 100% allowed and maybe in some cases preferred.
 
#8
Thank you for your feedback. I had all the auditors qualifications on hand as this was part of the RFQ selection process and I amended my procedure to accommodate for the outsourcing methodology. I have sent an email to the certification body this morning seeking further clarity regarding this but appreciate everyone's input as I started questioning whether I did something completely wrong here especially as it was mentioned at the closing meeting with all our directors present.
 

Johnny Quality

Involved In Discussions
#9
I can't find anything in the standard which says you cannot outsource your internal auditors, but as Howard says you have to verify their competence in accordance with 7.2.3.

Would you have to manage the auditor as a supplier under 8.4 as well? I think you would as they affect customer requirements.
 
#10
I can't find anything in the standard which says you cannot outsource your internal auditors, but as Howard says you have to verify their competence in accordance with 7.2.3.

Would you have to manage the auditor as a supplier under 8.4 as well? I think you would as they affect customer requirements.
Yes, you would. Our RFQ process was handled by our Procurement department who receives the technical requirements from QA.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Thoughts on managing ISO 9001, 13485, IATF 16949 and 17025 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
P IATF 16949 requirement - error-proofing in control plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
eule del ayre Documented Information - Periodic Review of Documents? IATF 16949:2016 / ISO 9001:2015 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 34
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
L IATF 16949 certification costs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B FCA US Customer Specific IATF 16949- Critical Characteristics 8.6.2 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
B IATF 16949 News Six month extension on all valid IATF 16949 certs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
earl62 IATF 16949 Clause 9.1.1.1 - What is the batch conformance to specification method? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B FCA US IATF 16949 Customer Requirements updates Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
S Can assembly manufacturing sub-supplier be certified IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D IATF 16949 Requirement for CMMI in a Global Company Elsmar Cove Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 0
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
A IATF 16949 4.3.1 - Determining the scope of the quality management system - supplemental IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Definition of "worldwide" in view of IATF 16949 and Product conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
R Where does IATF 16949 address Process mapping? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
A Document "Correspondence IATF 16949 vs ISO13485" available? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
H Remote product audits in Coivd-19 - IATF 16949 9.2.2.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
S IATF 16949 - Partial traceability of Aftermarket products IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF 16949 8.5.1.3 Verification of job set-ups - Do we need secondary check? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
C Industrial scales and MSA (IATF 16949 requirement 7.1.5.1.1) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 30
V Generic IATF 16949 Audit Checklist wanted IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
M Scope of Combined ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 QMS - Non-automotive customers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D Postpone IATF 16949 audit due to COVID-19 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 41
J Does anyone have an excel IATF 16949 Internal Audit checklist I could use? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
T Reaction Plan To Drive suppliers to IATF 16949 registration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B IATF 16949 - Is a Deviation required for sample components in a prototype build? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
C IATF 16949 - Scope or not? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L "IATF-Compliant" IATF 16949:2016 certification? What does this mean? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
B Go Beyond ISO 9001 WITH IATF 16949 (January 28) [Paid] Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
V IATF 16949 8.4.1 Control of externally provided processes, products and services - Should the CB be on our Approved Supplier List? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
S Can we provide training plan as corrective action for IATF 16949 Non conformity? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
C Design and implementation of process audits as defined within IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q VDA 6.3 questions vs IATF 16949 clauses VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 0
N IATF 16949:2016 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - How to approve the Testing Laboratory without accreditation scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M IATF 16949 (6.1.1 - Planning and Risk Analysis for a remote site) Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 5
D IATF 16949 FAQ 24 (8.4.2.2 Countries of Destination) - How is this actually being interpreted? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Jimmy123 What is the difference between Error Proofing and Controls? ISO/IATF 16949 - Control Plans FMEA and Control Plans 16
P IATF 16949 8.4.2.4 Supplier Monitoring IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
V IATF 16949 9.2.2.1 Internal Audit Program - "Process Changes" IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News Presentations from the latest IATF Stakeholder Event - Expectation that IATF 16949 certification should equate with product quality. Misguided? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
C IATF 16949 8.3 Exclusion - Manufacturing process design and development IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
J IATF 16949 8.4.1.2 Supplier selection process IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
M IATF 16949 CAPITULO 7.3.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Casana IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - On Site Calibration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
P IATF 16949 Clause 8.4.2.3 - Justification for non-certified suppliers IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
M IATF 16949:2016 clause 8.4.2.3 - We don't have ISO 9001:2015 certificate IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 26
T New role Quality Manager IATF 16949, new company, advise how to get started IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
R Material safety data sheet (MSDS) related clause in IATF 16949 manual IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 17

Similar threads

Top Bottom