IATF 16949 - Outsourcing of internal audits

#1
I recently outsourced my internal management system audits to a reputable qualified external auditor. We have IATF 16949 certification. We still conduct process and product audits using our own internal auditors. Is the outsourcing allowed as our certification body said it is not allowed during a recent audit. If not allowed, please send me the reference document where it states this. Thank you.
 
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Ninja

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#2
Totally allowed. Rather common when I last was under 16949 (been two and a half years now).
What section of the standard did they cite when stating it was not permitted?
 
#3
Thats just it...they did not cite the standard even though I asked and I have tried searching everywhere. Will have to get more clarity from them on this tomorrow but wanted to get the opinion from others. They insisting that we need to show some audits that we conduct internally using our own auditors. Thank you for your reply.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#4
Is there something in your agreement with the CB possibly? I can't imagine why they would put that in...but stranger things have happened...
 

Howard Atkins

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#7
Please keep copies of their competence.
I have audited companies that believed the auditors were "reputable" but had no real competence as per requirements of the standard.
Also make sure they work according to your procedure and not their own , another failing point.
Outsourcing internal audits is 100% allowed and maybe in some cases preferred.
 
#8
Thank you for your feedback. I had all the auditors qualifications on hand as this was part of the RFQ selection process and I amended my procedure to accommodate for the outsourcing methodology. I have sent an email to the certification body this morning seeking further clarity regarding this but appreciate everyone's input as I started questioning whether I did something completely wrong here especially as it was mentioned at the closing meeting with all our directors present.
 

Johnny Quality

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
I can't find anything in the standard which says you cannot outsource your internal auditors, but as Howard says you have to verify their competence in accordance with 7.2.3.

Would you have to manage the auditor as a supplier under 8.4 as well? I think you would as they affect customer requirements.
 
#10
I can't find anything in the standard which says you cannot outsource your internal auditors, but as Howard says you have to verify their competence in accordance with 7.2.3.

Would you have to manage the auditor as a supplier under 8.4 as well? I think you would as they affect customer requirements.
Yes, you would. Our RFQ process was handled by our Procurement department who receives the technical requirements from QA.
 
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