IATF 16949 - Requirements for Personnel Safety?

[lmamao]

Since the forms we use in the internal audit didn't change with the New IATF, there was a segment for safety related issues, this because of previous experiences with external audits (never had an NC but...) that they would make observations.

As for my self I do consider my self competent to audit safety since I have experience in safety and environmental (as supervisor and manager).

Thanks for the input I greatly appreciate it, is a great help to develop a criteria specially with a new standard.

 

[AndyN]

Since the forms we use in the internal audit didn't change with the New IATF, there was a segment for safety related issues, this because of previous experiences with external audits (never had an NC but...) that they would make observations.

As for my self I do consider my self competent to audit safety since I have experience in safety and environmental (as supervisor and manager).

Thanks for the input I greatly appreciate it, is a great help to develop a criteria specially with a new standard.

If I can offer some counsel: Unless you have an integrated Health & Safety and/or Quality (even Environmental) System, and the respective management with responsibilities for these things are involved in the planning etc of the internal audit, when you pull this kind of NC (or whatever you label it) you run the risk of causing problems. I'd keep well away from using the audit for such things. Treat it as if you'd walked past the containers and simply noticed it and brought it to the right person's attention.

Secondly, don't model your internal audit after ANYTHING the CB does to report audits, including when they mention stuff outside the scope of a QMS audit.

 

[Rameshwar25]

External auditors MUST NOT audit outside of the scope of their audits. They might even report a (perceived) unsafe situation to your company, but NEVER as nonconformity against IATF 16949, since there are NO REQUIREMENTS in the standard for that.

How can we react to auditor who raises NC on personnel safety? Should be accept it or we should argue that it is not specific requirement of standard?

 

[Golfman25]

How can we react to auditor who raises NC on personnel safety? Should be accept it or we should argue that it is not specific requirement of standard?

I would argue. What are the specifics?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

How can we react to auditor who raises NC on personnel safety? Should be accept it or we should argue that it is not specific requirement of standard?

If the auditor can not be reasoned with, you certainly appeal to the CB. Easy win. Did you see my post and the ISO Paper on this subject that I posted on another thread yesterday?

Nonconformities should be issued only in situations where identification has been made of system deficiencies or of direct violations in respect of statutory and regulatory requirements applying to the products and services of the organization.

However, if nonconformity to other kinds of statutory requirements (e.g. health and safety, environment, etc.) is coincidentally detected during the audit, this fact cannot be ignored by the auditors. It should be reported without delay to the auditee and, if required, to the audit client.

Auditors, internal and external, must react to observations of unsafe situations. Anyone should, for that matter. But auditors must not write up a nonconformity for something that is outside of the scope of the audit, as this is clearly poor audit protocol. As I said many times, any organization which allows QMS auditors to wander willy nilly and stray away from the intended envelope of the audit scope is being negligent. What if the auditor start to request the organization's financial records? Would you allow it?

 

[antoine.dias]

Please look at the IATF note on item 7.1.4
Quote :
NOTE : When third-party certification to ISO 45001 (or equivalent) is recognised, it may be used to demonstrate the organisation's
conformity to the personnel safety aspects of this requirement
Unquote
and the last sentence in 8.5.1.2
Quote :
The standardised work documents shall also include rules for operator safety
Unquote
those are about personnel safety.

Best regards,
Antoine