IATF 16949 Section 8.5.1.5 (Total Productive Maintenance)

[Kostas M]

Thank you John and Jim,

We had evidence of that we were doing as preventive maintenance. The items that we were doing as PMs were not satisfactory since we do not have any technical items such as bearing replacements, stop screws inspection etc. As a organization, with the current maintenance plan we achieve our goals for the Mean time to Repair, Unscheduled time time etc. Since the standard does not identify any specific items that need to be included in our PM plan, is the NC valid?

Thanks

 

[John C. Abnet]

Thank you John and Jim,

We had evidence of that we were doing as preventive maintenance. The items that we were doing as PMs were not satisfactory since we do not have any technical items such as bearing replacements, stop screws inspection etc. As a organization, with the current maintenance plan we achieve our goals for the Mean time to Repair, Unscheduled time time etc. Since the standard does not identify any specific items that need to be included in our PM plan, is the NC valid?

Thanks

Again, without intimacy of the situation it is not fair for me/"us" to determine if the auditor is "right" or "wrong" I will say, however, I am still perplexed in regard to your description of the nonconformance problem statement (""more technical preventive maintenance objectives ") vs what you have indicated the auditor actually wrote in the nonconformity problem statement ("
"Evidence that the organization had executed preventive maintenance in addition to oil replacement, cleaning and filter replacement was not
available" ).

In short, the auditor is stating, "Evidence.....not available". It is not the auditor's place to identify what maintenance is performed. It is reasonable, however, to ask that there is evidence of the maintenance that is performed.

Hope this helps.

Be well.

 

[Kostas M]

Understood. Thank you very much. The statement that was written on the NCR does not describe what was discussed during the closing meeting and when this NCR was found. If you read it, you understand that there were no evidence of the PM but actually the auditor meant that there were no evidence of technical maintenance activities as I mentioned some examples above since all the evidence of the current PM activities were available.

Thank you all for your input

 

[Peter_Djuk]

Let us assume that the auditor had an opportunity to make himself familiar with the different data. Data available to him are regarding your key metrics. Showing trends from good to bad (which is normal and expected at any company). And concluded that there is a direct link between ineffective preventive maintenance due to lack of additional 'checked/cleaned parts on the machine' (actions vs. frequency) and % scrap.

But this is all circumstantial and as mentioned above by Mr. John.

Please take into consideration that the situation described above could be documented as non-conformity due to the fact - making correlations between the data from different processes is part of risk-based thinking - and failure to provide evidence for taking something into consideration which may impact your business results in a long run is failure to show evidence of 6.1.1 resulting in the worst-case scenario failure to fulfill 4.1.

Usually, the audit report contains the information on which standard requirement was affected by documented non-conformity. It might be helpful for the discussion if you could share it with us.

 

[Kostas M]

I agree, the auditors contains the information of the standard that the NCR was written against but the auditor just copied and pasted the whole section of the 8.5.1.5 of the standard.

 

[Johnnymo62]

If it was me, I would do a risk analysis type of activity to determine there is nothing more needed than what you already do. I don't think your auditor will then be able to say you need to do more than you already are.

Your company gets to decide what is adequate for your company.

 

[Kostas M]

Thank you Johnnymo62. That is what we said that apparently it was not satisfactory.

 

[Thee Bouyyy]

The statement that was written on the NCR does not describe what was discussed during the closing meeting and when this NCR was found.

I am not surprise for this, this is now becoming the habit. They are discussing something else during the closing meeting and different story in their report. I have been facing this since last 3 audits. All time I've raised my voice to NB and no actions taken. Our management decided to change NB next year.

Coming to your original question, My views are same as @John C. Abnet

Without being intimate with the situation (objective evidence, etc...) it is difficult for "us" to tell you definitively if the NC is warranted or not. You mention..."standard does not mention anything about "executed" PM". Not sure what you mean by "executed", but what the standard DOES specificy...
* Shall.... "documented" ...maintenance system."
*" Documented....objectives"
* Use of preventive maintenance methods"
* "Review of ...plan....objectives....action plan.

 

[Mikey324]

Thank you Johnnymo62. That is what we said that apparently it was not satisfactory.

Did you provide any risk assessment showing that you considered other PM's as needed. Not sure what machines you have, but most require some type of greasing, oiling, bearing inspection, heat checks etc. I would imagine more upkeep is done on a regular basis to keep the machines in good working order, other than just checking the oil and cleaning filters.

It sounds to me like the auditor was looking for evidence that something like that is planned and performed. If you have been in operation for some time, I'm sure your maintenance department is doing some kind of preventive, upkeep work. If not, you would see it in unplanned downtime and emergency repairs. If you look into it, you may find much more is being done and not documented?


Just my $0.02

 

[John C. Abnet]

Just my $0.02

Assuming the "two cents worth" term came into common use in mid 1930,s (debatable), our British friends would now say (considering inflation of course) you've given your..
"1 pound 8 pence worth"

Be well.