IATF 16949 surveillance audit frequency

[Helmut Jilling]

Golfman,
If the auditor was listening to our requirement then ok, but in this case I suspect the auditor has decided 6 monthly frequency & entered into a document suggesting it was agreed. Being self employed he'll claim 2 lots of travelling expenses for each 6 monthly. In all likelihood we would get a minor at a surveillance so that would mean another 1/2 day invoiced by the auditor to close off (working from home / not coming to the site) then an additional 1/2 added onto the next surveillance audit to close off the same minor. We seem to pay a high price for closing minor non conformances we have been invoiced 1 day (@1146/day) for the auditor to close 6 minors from our transition when working from home.

For the 3 day transition +1 day document review we were invoiced for 11 days in total because the audit was 3 days re certification & 3 days transition although the same actual days, we were also invoiced 2 days off site for the auditor to read his notes from the document review & further to write up the audit. I have disputed paying still to be resolved.

If the CB doesn't have any expertise in IATF other than their (sub contract) auditor then they may be just doing as he instructs (the tails wagging the dog). So the maybe the CB invoice us the same days as the auditor invoices them whether justified or not.

Had I known this would happen post transition I would have gone to another CB, also I'm not sure what other IATF auditors my CB has in the UK.
Thanks
Dave

The IATF transition audit is a recert audit... it should be the same days, not double...

 

[AndyN]

Howard... are you saying people have 3 more years to transition? Please clarify...

I suspect he means "transfer" from one CB to another...

 

[Golfman25]

Golfman,
If the auditor was listening to our requirement then ok, but in this case I suspect the auditor has decided 6 monthly frequency & entered into a document suggesting it was agreed. Being self employed he'll claim 2 lots of travelling expenses for each 6 monthly. In all likelihood we would get a minor at a surveillance so that would mean another 1/2 day invoiced by the auditor to close off (working from home / not coming to the site) then an additional 1/2 added onto the next surveillance audit to close off the same minor. We seem to pay a high price for closing minor non conformances we have been invoiced 1 day (@1146/day) for the auditor to close 6 minors from our transition when working from home.

For the 3 day transition +1 day document review we were invoiced for 11 days in total because the audit was 3 days re certification & 3 days transition although the same actual days, we were also invoiced 2 days off site for the auditor to read his notes from the document review & further to write up the audit. I have disputed paying still to be resolved.

If the CB doesn't have any expertise in IATF other than their (sub contract) auditor then they may be just doing as he instructs (the tails wagging the dog). So the maybe the CB invoice us the same days as the auditor invoices them whether justified or not.

Had I known this would happen post transition I would have gone to another CB, also I'm not sure what other IATF auditors my CB has in the UK.
Thanks
Dave

I agree. It sounds like you're being ripped off. Not even sure they can recert to ISO/TS any longer. You should have only had a 3 day transition audit. And all this should plus the surveillance audits should have been spelled out in their agreement. Good luck.

 

[Howard Atkins]

• The transition audit - IATF from ISO/TS is by definition a recertification audit
  
• You are are not allowed to move from one CB to another at a standard transition audit.
  
• All audits since October 2016 are to IATF

To be charged twice for the same audit is STEALING


I hope that clears up your confusion

 

[Dave Cx]

All
I just want to conclude where this issue went / is now, I didn't want to add anything more whilst this was on-going & it has been challenging.

We had the 6 monthly surveillance audit & received minor non-conformances (as expected) - but nothing that cannot be put right. These took an age to arrive & I had to chase the auditor to see if they were formally raising what was discussed at the closing meeting.

We will eventually move to a 12 monthly audit frequency but first we will have another 6 monthly surveillance then 2 audits at 12 monthly frequency, (if the request to change to 12 monthly frequency is accepted by the CB's head office).

Regarding the financial side after explanation to the CB's hierarchy a 'most' amicable agreement has been reached.

Thanks for all the comments / advice.
Dave

 

[QualitySpirit]

All
I just want to conclude where this issue went / is now, I didn't want to add anything more whilst this was on-going & it has been challenging.

We had the 6 monthly surveillance audit & received minor non-conformances (as expected) - but nothing that cannot be put right. These took an age to arrive & I had to chase the auditor to see if they were formally raising what was discussed at the closing meeting.

We will eventually move to a 12 monthly audit frequency but first we will have another 6 monthly surveillance then 2 audits at 12 monthly frequency, (if the request to change to 12 monthly frequency is accepted by the CB's head office).

Regarding the financial side after explanation to the CB's hierarchy a 'most' amicable agreement has been reached.

Thanks for all the comments / advice.
Dave

If after the transition audit, you have undertaken a 6 monthly surveillance; you have to keep the surveillance cycle at 6 monthly until the next recertification audit e.g. for 3 years.

It states in IATF rules 5.1.1
Once established, the surveillance interval as detailed in table 5.1 shall be maintained for the three (3) year audit cycle.

If your CB wants to change, they need to get an approved waiver from the oversight office. In my opinion, there is very little chance the oversight office will approve such case.

 

[QualitySpirit]

All,
Can anyone advise what the correct process is regarding setting surveillance frequency. To add to the complexity we are in the UK but my CB is a US one, I have contacted the SMMT (as UK global oversight) for advise on this but they cannot help as the CB is under IAOB!
Dave

I just read this. The correct process is that during the closing meeting the lead auditor has to confirm this with the client and inform the due of the next audit date. They can't just assume that the surveillance frequency will be the same as the previous cycle.