IATF and ASPICE level 2

#1
Hello,

The supplier I am working for is not design responsible. Recently I discovered that one section of our group is at a level two ASPICE certification. Does anyone know if this certification implies to an IATF auditor that we are design responsible?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Staff member
#2
Good day @rvanderbilt
When you state "the supplier..." you are working for, is it safe to assume that..
1- you are referring to the company/organization you are working for and that company is a supplier to the automotive industry? Or...
2- are you speaking of a "supplier" that is providing goods/services to your organization?

I will respond based on the premise that "1" is the situation. Please correct me if wrong.

"SPICE" is intended ...
"...perform conformant assessments of the software process capability in the development of automotive systems in accordance with the requirements of ISO/IEC 33002."

So, if your organization NOT design responsible, then why would it be assessed according to SPICE?

From what I am taking from your original post (I'm still a little unclear),...I would assume your organization IS design responsible specific to software development specific to automotive systems.

Hope this helps.
Be well.
 
#3
You are correct in assuming my company is the supplier. We offer a product that is manufactured in Japan and we support certain processes from our facility. We don't have design responsibility but we cover some of the support processes, such as project management on the US side on behalf of Japan. I just found out this week that we have been required to get level 2 certification from the customer. I don't have much ASPICE experience so I don't know what to make of all this. I don't know if I need to change the IATF scope to include design. It kind of seems that we have implied we are design responsible because of this cert.
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Staff member
#4
You are correct in assuming my company is the supplier. We offer a product that is manufactured in Japan and we support certain processes from our facility. We don't have design responsibility but we cover some of the support processes, such as project management on the US side on behalf of Japan. I just found out this week that we have been required to get level 2 certification from the customer
Hmmm....This is new to many (including me) so objective answers may be difficult to come by. However, based on what I am understanding in regards to your organization, this also may be very new to your customer (i.e. the individual(s) asking you to be "level 2 certified" may not (do not appear to ) know quite what they are asking for).

I would certainly be VERY cautious regarding the scope of IATF 16949. For example, if your organization wishes to change to the product you provide...does YOUR organization (your location or Japan) change the drawing or does a request go to the customer and the CUSTOMER changes the drawing ?
If your organization was not design responsible prior to SPICE, then SPICE alone does not suddenly make your organization design responsible.


Please continue to post here with what you learn and any additional details. This dialogue will prove beneficial to many.

Be well.
 
#5
Morning,
Japan our manufacturing site changes the drawing. They are design responsible.

You say that having SPICE alone doesn't suddenly make us design responsible, is that because we are only level 2? I don't know much about ASPICE but both sites have there own ASPICE cert and our cert is only covering some supportive roles in the development process.
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Staff member
#6
Morning,
Japan our manufacturing site changes the drawing. They are design responsible.

You say that having SPICE alone doesn't suddenly make us design responsible, is that because we are only level 2? I don't know much about ASPICE but both sites have there own ASPICE cert and our cert is only covering some supportive roles in the development process.
1- "Design responsible" is a determination in and of its own and has nothing to do with SPICE or any other assessment.

2- In regards to the IATF 16949 certification. Does your organization site hold its OWN iatf 16949 certification, or does it SHARE an Iatf 16949 certification with your japan site, as part of a Corporate Scheme ?
 
#7
Morning,
We have our own IATF certificate. It's good to know that design responsible is a determination apart from SPICE. I was afraid someone inadvertently signed us up for something. My anxiety was beginning to increase.

Thanks!
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Staff member
#8
Yep...and your response further confirms that since you hold your own cert, your Japan location, not your site, is design responsible.

If you don't mind, continue to post about SPICE as you encounter assessments, etc... We are all still learning this topic.

Be well.
 
#9
Hello,
I was just reviewing this and I have another question. FCA has a customer specific requirement 8.3.2.3 which says anybody delivering software embedded electronic components must undergo an assessment of process capability. The capability they are referring to is the third party ASPICE audit done on a yearly basis. My stress comes in at if we are not design responsible but yet now I am subject to some clauses under the design and development section of IATF what else will I need to be cautious of? Probably a better question is, If I am not design responsible what does that mean I am exempted from when it comes to IATF sub clauses?
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Staff member
#10
Good day @rvanderbilt ;
Keep em' coming. "SPICE" is still a relatively new subject, and I'm sure there are quite a few watching these posts.

Bear in mind that regardless of IATF 16949 , organizations are subservient to applicable CSR (customer specific requirements).

As you know, the CSR specifically states...
... an assessment of software process
capability/maturity in accordance with CS.00187.


The FCA (Stellantis ;) CSR under 8.3.2.3 does not directly state SPICE as a requirement. However, you know best what it is the customer is asking for and I do not have access to referenced document CS.00187.
(Is it possible for you to share the gist of that document without violating any trade or copyright rules?)


8.3 is divided between "process" design (no "exemption") and "product" design ("exemption" if logic).
We are currently discussing "product design", which, based on what I understand from your description, your organization site is NOT product design responsible. However, this does not exclude requirements placed upon an organization by the customer.

It IS possible, however, that your customer is also new to SPICE and mis-applying the requirements. I would certainly hope that a strong relationship exists with the OEM (and/or will be developed), wherein a frank and open conversation can take place around this subject. It is indeed difficult for me to see how or why the OEM would want to apply any SPICE requirements to your site. Remember, the customer is NOT always correct;)

Hope this helps
Be well.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Sidney Vianna Job Opening in the USA - IATF 16949 Lead Auditor Position Job Openings, Consulting and Employment Opportunities 0
Ron Rompen IATF 16949 8.5.1.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
I Work Instruction Update- IATF Impact IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
P IATF 16949:2016 Letter of conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF PROCESSES IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D IATF 16949 SI 10, External non-accredited lab IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A Control plan for IATF - example? FMEA and Control Plans 1
J IATF CB Auditor questions Internal Auditor Competence IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 19
A IATF MSA study Type 1 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
S IATF 16949 - Summary at a glance Clause wise - changes from ISO TS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Azaarus Help with CAPA for an IATF finding regarding inspection documentation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
W Do Reference materials for IATF need to be 17025? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
D Special IATF audit of sub-supplier IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
T IATF 16949 Recording inspection results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
G Remote support - IATF allowed words defined? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
D "certified" in ISO 19011, as well as IATF required? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D IATF 16949 M&TE Laboratory scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M IATF 16949 SI # 10: Integrated self-calibration of measurement equipment- Needs for explanation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B IATF Certification Body Recommendations Registrars and Notified Bodies 3
K IATF audit day requirements table 5.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
M IATF - Internal Audit 3 year span Internal Auditing 4
J IATF 16949 Calibration/Verification records question ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 6
D Bulk Materials (Greases) and IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
M New IATF Sanctioned Interpretations April 2021 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
L Eligible for IATF or eligible for LOC ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
N IATF Calibration Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 5
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
B How many nonconformances have you received on average during IATF audits? General Auditing Discussions 27
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 18
B Remote IATF 16949 audit preparation General Auditing Discussions 10
R IATF 16949 Certification for new site with transferred product--what is the impact with CSR and scorecards? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B IATF 16949 Cert Expire- New certification body IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF 16949 - Audit of Remote Location/Support Site and IT IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
Q IATF audit - Root Cause Analysis results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M IATF Icon pack /PNG IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
S Advantages and disadvantages on IATF corporate scheme IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
W Where does a coatings and paint company fall in IATF? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
Q Contingency plan - IATF Sanctioned Interpretation 17 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
O Informational Ford Motor Company Customer Specific Requirements for IATF 16949:2016 - 08 Jan 2021 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
B Updated IATF 16949 - Will IATF 16949 get revised when ISO 9001:202X is released? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
R IATF Oversight certificates General Auditing Discussions 5
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News Update on the IATF CARA Project (“Common Audit Report Application”) - 12/2020 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
O Release of Sanctioned Interpretations (SIs) related to Rules 5th Edition and Sanctioned Interpretations related to IATF 16949:2016 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News IATF Observer Guideline IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
G IATF Rules for COVID 5th revision - Re-certification audit timing IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
L IATF external audit virtual (remote) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
T IATF Rules for sharing production space with another company IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
W Allowing our IATF to Expire Due to Relocation. Any Backlash? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom