IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppliers

Joe.cmspin

Starting to get Involved
#1
Ok folks, There was a new e-mail sent out today stating that: "IATF 16949 identifies compliance to Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppliers (MAQMSR) as a possible intermediate step in supplier quality management system development (IATF 16949, section 8.4.2.3.c). Attached below is the MAQMSR document. The use of MAQMSR document is currently specified by FCA USA, FCA Italy, and Ford Motor Company." The post then goes no to list the minimums and relative section numbers.

SO. My question is, being that we are a Sub-Tier supplier. Does that then mean that our QMS is only required to meet those standards listed in that e-mail to be IATF 16949 Certified? :rolleyes:

OR. Are we still held to the full IATF 16949 document? :(

A sub-tier standard would be very much appreciated for small family owned shops like the one I work for.

Thank you in advance for your time and replies. :thanx:
Joe Rich
 

Sebastian

Involved - Posts
#2
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

What is your position in supply chain and against what standard are you currently certified?
 

Joe.cmspin

Starting to get Involved
#3
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

We are ISO 9001 TS:16949 Certified. Been working toward IATF 16949 sense February. This letter makes me question if we are over-doing things. We supply sub-assemblies to a Automotive supplier. No inhouse design or testing.
 

Sebastian

Involved - Posts
#4
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

So, Tier-2 or even lower. If I understand it properly, ISO 9001:2015 certified suppliers are encouraged to implement requirements of MAQMSR in perspective of second party audit to be implemented in future.
Your situation is much complicated, as you are already ISO/TS 16949 certified. Your certificate will lost validity at least in September and you are allowed to be ISO 9001:2015 certified meanwhile implementing MAQMSR requirements. I do not know how your customer will evaluate your step back and IS0 9001 is definitely step back for your system.
Compare what is better for you. Step back and then implement slowly IATF 16949 and pay full certification charge or go through transition audit with a discount. Crucial thing is when is scheduled your next 3rd party audit and how your customer will evaluate eventual step back.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
Trusted
#5
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

Ok a couple of things. First the IATF standard has a list of steps from ISO to IATF certification of the supply chain. One of those steps is this "sub-tier" requirements document -- i.e.; IATF Lite. It makes a lot of sense as it takes the real meat of the IATF/TS requirements and leaves out some of the burdensome outliers. But, as far as I know, there is no "certification" to that document.

Second, you customer will need to lay out where it needs you to be. They may mandate ISO or IATF and you'll need to work thru that.

Third, you'll need to figure out if the IATF upgrade is worth it. Being in yours shoes, I think it is overkill for your most small component sub tier providers. And I'll disagree, I don't think a move to ISO 9001:2015 is really a step back for your company. I think it's lateral. It's actually very similar to the old TS standard -- you will keep most of what you are doing to comply with TS. We kept about 98% of what we had. For example, while not specifically required, we kept the whole system, mfg. process, and product audit distinctions. You won't have to add a lot to what you currently have, save for some of the totally new org. context stuff.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Moderator
#6
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

SO. My question is, being that we are a Sub-Tier supplier. Does that then mean that our QMS is only required to meet those standards listed in that e-mail to be IATF 16949 Certified? :rolleyes:

OR. Are we still held to the full IATF 16949 document? :(
The short story is that if you want IATF 16949 certification, you still need to meet all of the IATF 16949 requirements.

This document is for those companies that aren't certified to IATF 16949, but are in the automotive OEM supply chain. Their customers are required to show that their suppliers have a QMS that meets certain requirements just as you do now with ISO/TS 16949. As both Sebastian and Golfman have mentioned, you have a choice if you want your QMS to be certified to IATF 16949 or not. I suspect that your customers would prefer that your QMS be certified because it makes things easier for them. You may or may not lose business if you decide to not go for IATF 16949 certification.
 
#7
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

Rich,
I do not see the attachment.

Thanks,

Dennis Rosa
 

Dave Cx

Involved In Discussions
#8
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

Joe
There is a requirement for an IATF accredited company to have IATF suppliers too, but for some suppliers this isn't practical (as automotive may be a small % of their overall business), so the customer states what their minimum supplier requirement is (on top of 9001). I believe this is what you have now. If you are presently TS then the what's the difference between meeting this requirement alone or going all out for IATF?
Dave
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
Trusted
#9
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

Joe
There is a requirement for an IATF accredited company to have IATF suppliers too, but for some suppliers this isn't practical (as automotive may be a small % of their overall business), so the customer states what their minimum supplier requirement is (on top of 9001). I believe this is what you have now. If you are presently TS then the what's the difference between meeting this requirement alone or going all out for IATF?
Dave
For many companies low on the supply chain (i.e.; component suppliers) with a small pct of auto business TS was overkill. IATF puts that overkill on steroids. Things like internal auditor competence, total productive maintenance, supplier monitoring, measurement system analysis, etc. are way over the top for what smaller companies need.

The MAQMS is a decent start but still overkill in many instances.
 

Dave Cx

Involved In Discussions
#10
Re: IATF Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-Tier Suppl

Golfman
Agreed I have just viewed this
http://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/...rements-for-Sub-tier-suppliers-2ndEd-rev2.pdf

It is overkill for 3rd & 4th tier suppliers, the volume of work in meeting it is not hugely different to achieving the full IATF. The OEMs (when creating IATF) want the whole supply chain to be very focused on meeting their requirements but as the tiers of supply become estranged so does the supplier's attention.

What I find really difficult is that even after applying IATF the need is still to meet the individual customer specific requirements; and that there is a common approach from FCA US, FCA Italy & Ford better than individual CSR's, but wouldn't just 1 criteria to meet all IATF signatories requirements be the way forward?:frust:
 

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