IATF Oversight certificates

#1
Hello There!

I'm very confused with what's going on. I'll appreciate your feedback in advance. Question: Is the need for IATF really so great that today they give away certificates right-handed and sinister? I´ve been acting as a consultant for many organizations in various areas for the past 18 years, specializing in the quality management/control industry, consulting with a number of small- to medium-sized firms dealing with implementing quality management systems, with a major focus on the Automotive world, Aerospace, Medical and Telecom as well industries. Currently IATF ADP Auditor, Exemplar Global, RABQSA, VDA, ASQ, AIAG, etc..

But today it's amazing what I'm experiencing as Regional QMS Director of a worldwide company.
I would like to put my ethics aside and share with you are the outrages currently employed by the active auditors such to keep their work.

1. Obsolete documentation referencing to ISO/TS 16949:2009
2. Lack of competence in the auditors group (apocryphal certificates)
3. The process to define interfaces with the remote locations is not fully effective IATF 16949 4.3.1
4. The process to assure reliable measuring equipment is not fully effective IATF 16949 7.1.5.2.1
5. The process to perform risk analysis is not fully effective ISO 9001:2015 6.1
6. The process to perform internal system audits is not fully effective
7. The process to perform internal system audits is not fully effective. IATF 16949 9.2.2.2

the finding mentioned above are floating in the air and after 8 days of auditing neither of the 2 auditors were able to identify this even by reading my stage 1 internal audit report made by self... What´s going on?????

My boss the president of the company called me one day and said, why do you think the CB doesn't want to find your findings?
 
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Missing answers to a few questions may explain our delay in discussing:

1. Is the supporting evidence agreed and you’ve verified that no contrary evidence exists? If not, such findings may continue to be ignored by your colleagues and the visiting auditors.

2. Or have you have already reported these findings as nonconformities (agreed upon by the auditee) for corrective action? If so, why would a visiting auditor repeat them?

3. Or are you saying the corrective action is overdue?
 
#3
Missing answers to a few questions may explain our delay in discussing:

1. Is the supporting evidence agreed and you’ve verified that no contrary evidence exists? If not, such findings may continue to be ignored by your colleagues and the visiting auditors.

2. Or have you have already reported these findings as nonconformities (agreed upon by the auditee) for corrective action? If so, why would a visiting auditor repeat them?

3. Or are you saying the corrective action is overdue?
Those findings are reported (documented) in the internal corporate audit exercise that was developed prior to the visit of an external auditor, The problem is that the top management tells me that my findings are important but as long as the external auditor does NOT find it, the findings will not be acted upon
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Thanks.

Well, top management need to understand the damage they are doing with their lack of visible commitment to requirements; the employees are watching them and take their cue from their behavior - good or bad.

...and you are exactly the person to stop this foolishness, not your external auditors. Never rely on your external auditors to initiate any necessary corrective action.

And, this term troubles me:

“internal corporate audit exercise”

Was it an exercise or an audit? Are you complicit in this play acting? If so, you may now need to seek an ally from top management to correct this situation; possibly with a quality leadership workshop.

Lastly, auditing is sampling and your external auditors may take a different sample.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#5
I am sorry I cannot understand what your problem is
If it is the CB you work with change it
If it is management go somewhere else
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#6
I note that items #2-7 are subjective conclusions...thus others with different experience, mindset or objectives may conclude differently.

For #1: is there a prohibition against these references in the current standard? (I don't have a copy handy).
 
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