Ideas on how to differentiate jobs (AS9100 jobs vs. "commercial" jobs)

[bear4489]

We are a "job shop" first and foremost and we are AS9100 certified. By this I mean, our aerospace related jobs account for around 4% of our annual work load. My problem is trying to determine a good and legitimate way to differentiate between the two job types within our quality system. It is difficult to justify, and often times virtually impossible, to treat our non-aerospace jobs with the delicate and thorough nature that we do aerospace jobs. Does anyone have plausible advice on how to spell out such a situation in our systems manual, etc.?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Ideas on how to differentiate in quality system

Good morning,

Aside from the system requirements involved with AS9100, there are indeed specific product related requirements.

You are a job shop: do you use travelers or some other means to show what treatments each product run requires? In automotive this could amount to a control plan, but the aim is the same for these two industries: to make sure the needed controls are identified and then carried out. In job shops these controls, including inspection steps, are planned and laid out per product. Repeat runs may refer to earlier versions of the Traveler, with appropriate change control to ensure that only current requirements are listed.

The quality manual could describe the process in this manner, and in my view doesn't need to specifically say there's a difference in treatments for AS9100 products and the others. The manual could just say that process controls are planned and carried out per customer requirements.

I welcome other people's input on this. From what I can tell the subject has been made overly complex.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Ideas on how to differentiate in quality system

Good morning,

Aside from the system requirements involved with AS9100, there are indeed specific product related requirements.

You are a job shop: do you use travelers or some other means to show what treatments each product run requires? In automotive this could amount to a control plan, but the aim is the same for these two industries: to make sure the needed controls are identified and then carried out. In job shops these controls, including inspection steps, are planned and laid out per product. Repeat runs may refer to earlier versions of the Traveler, with appropriate change control to ensure that only current requirements are listed.

The quality manual could describe the process in this manner, and in my view doesn't need to specifically say there's a difference in treatments for AS9100 products and the others. The manual could just say that process controls are planned and carried out per customer requirements.

I welcome other people's input on this. From what I can tell the subject has been made overly complex.

I think you've hit it on the head. There should be a "quality plan" (whatever form that takes, and whatever it's actually called) that spells out the requirements for each part/product. The plan should always take customer (and other) requirements into account, so if the planning is done right in the beginning, there's no need to go overboard.

 

[bear4489]

Re: Ideas on how to differentiate in quality system

Good morning,

Aside from the system requirements involved with AS9100, there are indeed specific product related requirements.

You are a job shop: do you use travelers or some other means to show what treatments each product run requires? In automotive this could amount to a control plan, but the aim is the same for these two industries: to make sure the needed controls are identified and then carried out. In job shops these controls, including inspection steps, are planned and laid out per product. Repeat runs may refer to earlier versions of the Traveler, with appropriate change control to ensure that only current requirements are listed.

The quality manual could describe the process in this manner, and in my view doesn't need to specifically say there's a difference in treatments for AS9100 products and the others. The manual could just say that process controls are planned and carried out per customer requirements.

I welcome other people's input on this. From what I can tell the subject has been made overly complex.

Thanks for your input Jennifer!
The job traveler example you used is a good one. We do, in fact, use travelers but not on all jobs. (of course we do use a traveler(s) on all aerospace jobs and/or when required) Case in point, we may have a "tooling type job" that can have in excess of 100 line items in which case we would require in excess of 100 travelers and that just doesn't seem feasible when the customer doesn't require it and our operators simply make the part(s) to print.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Ideas on how to differentiate in quality system

Thanks for your input Jennifer!
The job traveler example you used is a good one. We do, in fact, use travelers but not on all jobs. (of course we do use a traveler(s) on all aerospace jobs and/or when required) Case in point, we may have a "tooling type job" that can have in excess of 100 line items in which case we would require in excess of 100 travelers and that just doesn't seem feasible when the customer doesn't require it and our operators simply make the part(s) to print.

I think that the Traveler you are most interested in, in this case would be the one for AS9100 parts. If this method is how you define process control for these customers, is used consistently and the results are as desired, it looks like control to me. Note that the traveler doesn't need to be on paper. It could be electronic if the run is identified in a way that ties to the control plan (traveler/etc) during production and inspection. The medium is less important than that the control is in place - EXCEPT where customers have specific requirements. For example if hand-signed records with black/blue ball point pen ink are required, you'd need an appropriate medium to get it done.

Other jobs such as the tooling type job should have controls to suit them. There's no expectation that every run have its own Traveler. What works is what's right for you.

 

[DannyK]

Describe in your quality documentation how you differentiate aerospace from commercial jobs. Some companies use different color travelers or a special area where aerospace product is produced. What is important is that it is evident to everyone what is an aerospace part and what is not.

 

[dsanabria]

We are a "job shop" first and foremost and we are AS9100 certified. By this I mean, our aerospace related jobs account for around 4% of our annual work load. My problem is trying to determine a good and legitimate way to differentiate between the two job types within our quality system. It is difficult to justify, and often times virtually impossible, to treat our non-aerospace jobs with the delicate and thorough nature that we do aerospace jobs. Does anyone have plausible advice on how to spell out such a situation in our systems manual, etc.?
Thanks in advance!

Keep in mind that the AS9100 auditor is looking for compliance of your shop to AS9100 requirements. Having said that... Try using different color folders, tags, paper to visually identify which jobs is aerospace and which jobs are not.

During contract review and planning of you process, don't forget to identify customer requirements in your process - (specially for non- aerospace products. Each one of your processes must meet as a minimum the ISO requirements - so be careful in the process.

NOTE: must of the AS 9100 will be verified by the auditor and that includes 100% of the scope on your certification. However, in your procedure / work instructions / shop travelers / etc... you need to clarify to the workforce what to do and not do to AS9100 product.

In reality... you could be confusing the work force with too much info (AS9100 requirement vs non AS9100) because ... the workforce will apply the wrong criteria at the wrong time and BAMG! - it will bite you at the end.

Keep it simple... meet the highest requirement on the floor, keep the information (Shop traveler) of non aerospace product concise, clear of customer requirements and to the pointshort.