Identification of Document Changes in a Wiki

C

CATERAF

#1
Hi,

I understand that each document needs to have a version and you need to state the changes to that version.
However, do those changes need to be stated on the document itself or is it sufficient to have them stated elsewhere, as long as it's stated?

My reason for asking is that we have a wiki-based system. For documents that we 'attach' to wiki pages (i.e., they're not a wiki page in itself), there is a file description and we're thinking that we could put in that the changes that we've made to the file each time we upload a new version. Is that sufficient to fulfill this criteria or does it need to be on the document?
E.g., if we then send that document via email, is it necessary that the 'changes' information goes with the document or is it enough that we have those changes recorded and if someone was to ask the difference, we could tell them?

A little confused.
Thanks :)
 
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Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#3
Hi,

I understand that each document needs to have a version and you need to state the changes to that version.
However, do those changes need to be stated on the document itself or is it sufficient to have them stated elsewhere, as long as it's stated?
Hi Cateraf,

Are you referring to iso 9001 section 4.2.3c, that reads "(define the controls needed) to ensure that changes and the current revision status of documents are identified"? If so, then to answer your question, you can identify changes wherever you want, so long as you comply with the rest of 4.2.3: controls are defined, relevant versions must be available at points of use, and misuse of obsolete docs must be prevented.

My reason for asking is that we have a wiki-based system. For documents that we 'attach' to wiki pages (i.e., they're not a wiki page in itself), there is a file description and we're thinking that we could put in that the changes that we've made to the file each time we upload a new version. Is that sufficient to fulfill this criteria or does it need to be on the document?
E.g., if we then send that document via email, is it necessary that the 'changes' information goes with the document or is it enough that we have those changes recorded and if someone was to ask the difference, we could tell them?
Per 4.2.3, second paragraph, you get to define the controls that you need. Who are you emailing your documents too, and what for? The answer should tell you whether you need to provide the revision history. If you do, then make it a part of your procedure.

The wiki is just a tool. Keep in mind the standard to clear up these kinds of questions. But having said that, the wiki does help a lot in document control, particularly in native wiki format. Even if wiki format isn't practical for a few docs, then at least let users consult those docs right on the wiki, instead of sending the docs through email.
 
C

CATERAF

#4
Thanks Pancho,
much appreciated.

You essentially confirmed what we suspected so that's great.

You did say that we need to make sure we comply with the rest of 4.2.3.
I think we're fine with the rest of the requirements but the obsolete documents part we've been debating for a little while now.

How have you dealt with your obsolete documents?
Our options are currently to:
1). Move the pages to another section (but keeping them ordered is a little tricky)
2). Putting [INACTIVE] in the page title so that they know the page is not in use
3). Changing page permissions to make the page viewing only except for admin

We also need to consider the documents attached to our wiki pages (i.e., when a document becomes a record).
We're thinking we could upload a blank document titled [INACTIVE] so that the latest version wouldn't be accidentally used, but still have access to prior versions (docs are available at points of use) etc.

Just wondering if you have a better way to do any of these?

Thanks :)
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#5
How have you dealt with your obsolete documents?
Our options are currently to:
1). Move the pages to another section (but keeping them ordered is a little tricky)
2). Putting [INACTIVE] in the page title so that they know the page is not in use
3). Changing page permissions to make the page viewing only except for admin
I am not sure whether I understand the question. Wikis keep all version history. Getting to obsolete versions of a document takes a couple of extra clicks, and the resulting pages look quite different. So there is no way to confuse an obsolete version of a document with the current version. And knowing the version history is very useful for users, so we do not restrict anyone from looking at it.

When a document becomes obsolete without a newer version of itself replacing it, then we either (1) use "redirect", which will then take you to the document that superseded the obsolete one while keeping the version history of the now-obsolete document, or (2) simply delete it (but that destroys the history).


We also need to consider the documents attached to our wiki pages (i.e., when a document becomes a record).
Records are tricky because there are many, often distinguished only by numbers such as dates or projects, or sequences. We organize most records by project, and they are kept in sub-wikis for each project. For some records we use a separate database, and the wiki is only a front-end. A few records, such as accounting records, aren't kept in the wiki at all, although digested reports are uploaded to the wiki.

We're thinking we could upload a blank document titled [INACTIVE] so that the latest version wouldn't be accidentally used, but still have access to prior versions (docs are available at points of use) etc.
Just wondering if you have a better way to do any of these?
Does your wiki support "redirect"? If so, that's what I'd recommend. And not because you use redirect does it mean that you lose the old document history. When you are redirected to a page, you will get a notice at the top of the landing page that says "redirected from OldDoc", and "OldDoc" is a link to the old page, where its history is still available.

If your wiki doesn't support redirect, then your solution is sensible -- just overwrite all content with the word "OBSOLETE", or "INACTIVE", and perhaps a link to where they might have been redirected if that was available. Users can still click on the history button and see what was before.
 
C

CATERAF

#6
Thanks, you understood perfectly.

When a document becomes obsolete without a newer version of itself replacing it, then we either (1) use "redirect", which will then take you to the document that superseded the obsolete one while keeping the version history of the now-obsolete document, or (2) simply delete it (but that destroys the history).
Redirecting works well for wiki pages that are superseded but doesn't really solve our dilemma of:
- files that we attach to the wiki - e.g., our flyer became a brochure and if they were wiki pages they could be redirected, but we can't redirect files.
- pages that we don't have any superseding pages for (but don't want to delete them). E.g., we have work instructions that become inactive but can become active later.

Records are tricky because there are many, often distinguished only by numbers such as dates or projects, or sequences. We organize most records by project, and they are kept in sub-wikis for each project. For some records we use a separate database, and the wiki is only a front-end. A few records, such as accounting records, aren't kept in the wiki at all, although digested reports are uploaded to the wiki.
Hmm.. records are tricky.
While they are classed differently to the general 'document' definition, I haven't found all that much different about them.
Another company I have talked with has quite a different procedure though.

For example, we were going to say that our records are identifiable by their title, they are stored in the appropriate disciplines, they're protected via backups, can be retrieved through versioning, are always retained (and if there is an exception, deleted using a permanent method).
The accounting documents are a little different because they're using paper-copies and kept in a secure filing cabinet.

Do we need to be keeping our records separate from our documents though?
I mean, there's nothing to stop a record being edited except that the record is still kept because of the versioning. Also, the records have page owners who should be checking if the records are changed and can revert back to the older version if necessary.
Do you think that is acceptable or have I missed something?

Thanks for your help :)
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#7
Redirecting works well for wiki pages that are superseded but doesn't really solve our dilemma of:
- files that we attach to the wiki - e.g., our flyer became a brochure and if they were wiki pages they could be redirected, but we can't redirect files.
- pages that we don't have any superseding pages for (but don't want to delete them). E.g., we have work instructions that become inactive but can become active later.
The wiki can help you control versions of files in various ways. You can, for example, replace older versions with new ones but not remove the old ones from the version-history, or you can keep separate pages for each version of the file.

Inactive pages can be kept as I mentioned in the last sentence of my prior comment.

Hmm.. records are tricky.
While they are classed differently to the general 'document' definition, I haven't found all that much different about them.
Another company I have talked with has quite a different procedure though.

For example, we were going to say that our records are identifiable by their title, they are stored in the appropriate disciplines, they're protected via backups, can be retrieved through versioning, are always retained (and if there is an exception, deleted using a permanent method).
The accounting documents are a little different because they're using paper-copies and kept in a secure filing cabinet.

Do we need to be keeping our records separate from our documents though?
I mean, there's nothing to stop a record being edited except that the record is still kept because of the versioning. Also, the records have page owners who should be checking if the records are changed and can revert back to the older version if necessary.
Do you think that is acceptable or have I missed something?

Thanks for your help :)
My "tricky" take is just because of the sheer volume of records. If you are keeping the records in the wiki, it may take a while to find a practical organization and naming convention for them. Other than that, yes, I think what you describe is probably acceptable for most records. You will find out whether it is practical as you start building your library of records.
 
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