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Identifying context for every process in an organization

armani

Involved In Discussions
#1
One of the guidance lines of our AB is that the CB auditors must look for the identification of context NOT only for organization, but for every process when auditing an organization??.....
It seems to me a over over exaggerating approach!! What do u think?
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hii... Throughout the standard the context is about context of the organization. Which guidance to CB auditors are you referring about. Is it possible that you can attach or post the complete details...
Thanks.
 
J

JoShmo

#3
One of the guidance linces of CB is that the CB auditors must look for the identification of context must be NOT only for organization, but for every process when auditing an organization??.....
It seems to me a over over exaggerating approach!! What do u think?
Whatever CB gave you that "guidance" has no clue what they're saying.
 

Eredhel

Quality Manager
#4
I'd ask them to "show me the shall". If you could tell us what exactly was said it might help with troubleshooting. So far it sounds like someone is trying to require more than is actually necessary.
 

armani

Involved In Discussions
#5
Hii... Throughout the standard the context is about context of the organization. Which guidance to CB auditors are you referring about. Is it possible that you can attach or post the complete details...
Thanks.
Well, there is no documented guidance....but observation when attending an audit as observer from AB!::((
But I do not agree with it at all! It's organization's context, not process context. I know...organizations are all about processes, but still....
Eredhel, you are right too!
 
J

JoShmo

#7
Maybe a little strong! More than a few of us are going to be struggling with this, CB and organization alike.

The Context of the Organization, not the context of the process within the organization (that has context).
Yes, organizations might. But when a register auditor says such a thing, they need to go back and discover ehat the message has been for the past 12 months or more! This isn't the 1994/2000 change over!
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
One of the guidance lines of our AB is that the CB auditors must look for the identification of context NOT only for organization, but for every process when auditing an organization??.....
It seems to me a over over exaggerating approach!! What do u think?
Beware of CB Auditor made rules! ISO9001:2015 makes no requirements to identify the context of NOT only for organization but for every processes when auditing an organization.

During our stage 1 audit, we entertained the auditor with our Business Plan, or journey, SWOT, Interested parties and their requirements, QMS processes, risks, etc... They I watch the "Fireworks" fly with rules that are not even found in the standard. Good luck to you.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Yes, organizations might. But when a register auditor says such a thing, they need to go back and discover ehat the message has been for the past 12 months or more! This isn't the 1994/2000 change over!
You appear to have a negative attitude toward CB Auditors. May I ask you a question that really doesn't have any thing to do with this thread. Are you a Consultant by chance? :notme:

As for the CB Auditor's interpretation, at times there are CB Auditors that may interpret something differently. Their job is to review, analyze, document results and any findings. It is up to the organization to challenge this during the closing meeting, show your facts, and they show you their facts. Come to a resolution with documented results. If no resolution is agreed upon then your responsibility is to elevate to the CB itself. Then they will determine who has the correct facts.

Just my take on this.
 

BoardGuy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
As the Client of the audit it boils down to this; when the auditor or his organization seems to be making up the rules you must ask:

1) Show me within the standard were it is required
2) Show me within the ISO/TC 176 Approved Interpretations Against ISO 9001:2015 were it is required
3) Show me within the ISO/IAF ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group documents were it is required.

[FONT=&quot]If the auditor insists you simply thank him/her and ask who within his/her organization to address the audit finding appeal in accordance with ISO 17021-1 CB requirements. Draft your formal appeal and send it [FONT=&quot]in[/FONT]. If they do not address your appeal, or appear to be incorrect, you then should go to ANAB and ask for a clarification.[/FONT]
 
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