If a company becomes TS 16949 certified does it still need ISO 9001 certification?

T

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
#1
Simple question, IF you become TS 16949 certified do you still need ISO 9001 certification?

I'm just wondering that if you become certified to the automotive standard but your business also supplies to other sectors where ISO9001 is enough / needed, what is the status if only to TS 16949? I might be wrong and the case is that if you get TS you also get 9k by default. I somehow doubt that and fully expect a CB to charge for certification and auditing twice if you need both certs.

I can foresee a case with flow downs that a company needs both certificates to effectively operate in two different sectors. A possible burden for SMEs perhaps. Personally I think a move towards TS compliance without being compelled by customers is best even if you don't become certified. Then If certification is necessary then you go for it having done the work over time. From things I've read ISO 9k is 2/3rds of the way there anyway.

I'd be interested in views on this.
 
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F

FredWest

#3
#3
Re: TS 16949 AND ISO 9001

I don't see why both certifications would be necessary - TS covers most, if not all, of QS9001 and then some.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
#4
Re: TS 16949 AND ISO 9001

TPMB4 said:
Simple question, IF you become TS 16949 certified do you still need ISO 9001 certification?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that ISO/TS 16949 certification applies only and must be limited to the manufacturing of automotive parts.

If you manufacture non-automotive parts, ISO 9001 (and potential certification) could be a proper path. Depending on how much integration you have between your automotive and non-automotive business processes, the ISO 9001 audit could be a significant effort, thus cost a decent amount.
 
T

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
#5
Re: TS 16949 AND ISO 9001

ISO 9001 is added to in order to achieve TS16949 is how I understand how the two standards are related. My understanding is that TS 16949 is specific to the automotive sector in that it has been written with a view to automotive specific requirements. I hope I am not wrong in that.

If your business is half automotive and half in another, unrelated sector then by only getting TS16949 you could be seen by the non-automotive customers as potentially not meeting their quality needs.

I believe I am correct that TS is applying 9k to automotive and you need to be compliant with 9k to be capable of being certified to TS. However I wonder if you come up against customers who have it in their mind that they need ISO9001 in order to do business what then? I have worked in companies and come across others who see ISO9001 as the only standard in their world and would probably not know enough about TS16949 to accept it as a standard with equivalent or better status.

I wonder if this has been experienced by anyone on the forum? I could just be asking a hypothetical question that has never come up.
 
T

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
#6
Re: TS 16949 AND ISO 9001

Sydney - We have ISO 9001 already so that is one thing.

However being new to Quality role and the automotive sector I've been learning a lot about TS16949. I say new to the sector I have worked for a company before in the automotive sector but in their non-automotive divisions and long time before the TS standard came out. My current employer could end up drifting towards TS certification, particularly down to customers kind of coaching us into it (kind of implied necessity but in a softly, softly way). However that could mean us losing the cert for ISO9001 if we can only get one (costs of keeping both going concurrently being prohibitive). I'm just trying to consider the implications to other business sectors. Being an SME our advantage is partly being diversified, but without ISO9001 that could perhaps be limited somewhat.

Just a question really, perhaps not for the forum but for the bosses here as it is a little specific to our company I suppose.
 
G

guruprasadb

#7
#7
Re: TS 16949 AND ISO 9001

TS 16949 standard is based on

ISO 9001 Requirements + Additional requirements related automobile sector (added clauses to ISO 9001) + CORE Tool requirements ( PPAP + APQP + FMEA + MSA + SPC) + Customer specific requirements


if we see TS 16949 standard Quote within the box is the requirements are of ISO 9001 & out of box are TS 16949 automotive sector requirements.

As per your industry processes, write down procedures , formats & manual
addressing common requirements like 6 mandatory procedures, 28 records etc ..... remaining as per automotive industry reqt
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
#8
Re: If a company becomes TS 16949 certified does it still need ISO 9001 certification

The thing to understand is, if your system meets the requirements in TS-16949, it automatically meets all the requirements of ISO 9001. So, when you are certified to TS-16949, you are in effect, certified to ISO 9001 as well.

There are two problems:

1. Some customers do not understand this. A clerical person in Purchasing may see that you are certified to TS, but her procedure requires you to be certified to ISO 9001, and so she/he assumes you do not qualify and you do not get picked. Sometimes, explaining this to the prospect is sufficient, sometimes not. But, if you do not even receive the RFQ, then you don't even realize that you have been excluded.

2. Per the rules of TS, when we perform a TS audit, we are required to focus on parts that are in automotive scope. So, if you stamp brackets for automotive, and also for dishwashers, only the automotive parts will be audited by the TS registrar. Some non-automotive customers are ok with that, because they reason that the auditor audited the process, and the same process is applied to both parts. But, sometimes the customer does not always accept this or even understand it.

Now, you state that the cost of both is prohibitive. You should discuss this with your registrar. For example, I audit for Smithers Quality Assessments. We have this situation all the time, and there usually are no extra costs, if the scope is the same. If the client wants us to do a little extra auditing, to include some non-automotive parts, they just add a small extra amount - maybe a 1/2 day or 1 day, to the audit plan. In any case, it should not be double, or require an extra auditor.
 
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Howard Atkins

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#9
#9
Re: If a company becomes TS 16949 certified does it still need ISO 9001 certification

I also audit for a CB.
We also give the ISO9001 certificate for the same scope for free.
If your scope is say injection moulding or precision grinding then this scope is audited in the TS audit.

If you want to add widgets to the scope than another 0.5 days looking at the production is enough.
If anyone quotes differently to to get another quote
 
S

sachin.navale

Registered
#10
#10
Needs Scope Clerification For ISO Certificate

We have two units in single premises. One unit is certified for ISO 9001:2008 certification & suppling to Agriculture & Constructions sector.Other unit is manufacturing the Gear components ISO/TS 16949 certified suppling to Automotive sector.
Recently our corporate office has taken decision to make the merger of two units in single.
We have following queries:
1. Can we put both units scope under single certificate.
2. How will be the documents.
 
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