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If a control operator add a photo as a visual aid, can you improve Occurrence?

D

diegofromitaly

#1
Dear,
if a control operator add a photo as a visual aid, you improve Occurrence?
Or Detection??

Or nothing????

Thanks!!!

:confused:
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Dear,
if a control operator add a photo as a visual aid, you improve Occurrence?
Or Detection??

Or nothing????

Thanks!!!

:confused:
Hi diego, Welcome to the cove.
Let me understand you more correctly.
A control operator add a photo as a visual aid ....
You mean that a visual depiction is provided as a means of instruction within the work instruction as an approved release ?
Such a visual aid is very helpful in giving clarity to the finished task and must be so clear, with the visual aid showing not just one visual, but at least three which depicts Good, Acceptable, Bad. This has to be clear in a way the operator can see, check and decide quickly. Such a visual aid must be used and outputs checked for consistency.
We will be looking for improving detection.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#3
Dear,
if a control operator add a photo as a visual aid, you improve Occurrence?
Or Detection??

Or nothing????

Thanks!!!

:confused:
Adding a robust Visual Aid as described by Somashekar, improves the Detection of relevant defect at the Control Station and reduces the Occurrence of 'defect outflow' from the Control station.
 
D

diegofromitaly

#4
My request are present in a PFMEA ISO TS exam question....
There are only a correct response:
1) detection
2) occurrence
3) none of above

:truce:

I think that FMEA AIAG Manual 4° Ed. considers a visual check a prevention control, then should reduce Occurrence and not Detection,....but i'm not sure...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
My request are present in a PFMEA ISO TS exam question....
There are only a correct response:
1) detection
2) occurrence
3) none of above

:truce:

I think that FMEA AIAG Manual 4° Ed. considers a visual check a prevention control, then should reduce Occurrence and not Detection,....but i'm not sure...
After all said and done, the visual aid is just finally hanging over there waiting to be used correctly. It cannot directly control an operation (leading to occurrence of a good task) but can only aid in correct decision (leading to detection of a good task)
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#6
*sigh* I often wonder who writes questions like this one, and how they are permitted to end up on the exam for use. But here we go, let us think about the PFMEA's RPM factors. From page 13:

Severity: an assessment of the level of impact of a failure on the customer.

Occurrence: how often the cause of a failure may occur.

Detection: an assessment of how well the product or process controls detect the cause of failure or the failure mode.

When we compare the three side-by-side we can see that Occurrence is process related and Detection is operator/inspector related. It is in finding what has already happened, so lowering the ranking means we are more likely to notice a problem. If a visual aid helps to do that - and I think it would because it can reduce or eliminate confusion about what's good or bad - then implementing the visual could, in fact lower the Detection ranking.

I hope this helps!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
True prevention controls (poka yoke / error-proofing) have a direct impact on occurrence. A s result, occurrence rankings will be lower. (In FMEA speak "better")

A visual aid such as a picture is not a prevention control because it still relies on the operator to make a determination between ok and not ok. Any time a control depends on an operator (detection), occurrence rankings are not affected very much.

Stijloor.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
@ Jennifer Kirley

Thank you, Jennifer
But I thought it was a forum to help, not a place to write arrogant reviews about people.

Does not seem the best way to conduct a forum to offend people
My interpretation of Jennifer's post is that she was referring to the people that actually develop/write these FMEA exam questions. It was in no way directed to you or folks who ask questions about FMEA...

Hope this clarifies.

Stijloor, Forum Moderator.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#9
My request are present in a PFMEA ISO TS exam question....
There are only a correct response:
1) detection
2) occurrence
3) none of above

:truce:

I think that FMEA AIAG Manual 4° Ed. considers a visual check a prevention control, then should reduce Occurrence and not Detection,....but i'm not sure...
Hi Diego,
I think that they both are directly linked, but given that you are talking about inspection I guess that detection could be surely improved because at the beginning the operator did not have any picture and then he/she is helped by having one and be more confident in detecting what is ok and what is not ok.
Hope this helps:bigwave:
 
Last edited:

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#10
@ Jennifer Kirley

Thank you, Jennifer
But I thought it was a forum to help, not a place to write arrogant reviews about people.

Does not seem the best way to conduct a forum to offend people
You are correct and completely within your rights to call me out on this issue. :agree1: I apologize for the misunderstanding. Stijloor is correct, I was referring to the people who wrote the test you were taking, but I was too vague. I should have said "I do not know why exam writers come up with questions like this one and allow them to be presented in high-stakes tests."

And, though I am usually in favor of unambiguous test questions that do not invite thinking in tangents, the question does require us to understand the difference between a process-related RPN factor and an operator/inspector-related factor. I suppose I will also be subject to such questions as I will soon enough be taking a closed-book test on the FMEA Manual; I am reminded that I have been warned to avoid over-thinking questions in that exam. So In addition to offering you an apology I thank you for a quick view of what to expect. :thanks:
 
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