Ignoring a Failed Gage R&R and upcoming external audit

#1
Question 1
I recently completed a variabe Gage R&R (per the Control Plans) for the company I work for and it failed badly (October 2018). I was requested to review old Gage R&R data dating back to 2006 and found the same Gage R&R - the 2006 Gage R&R passed. We will be submitting the 2006 Gage R&R to the TS auditor and for the time being - doing "nothing" about the 2018 failed Gage R&R - perhaps review in Q2 2019.

TS auitor will not be notified of the above.

Does the above violate anything.

Question 2
Also - is there an issue with submitting to a TS auditor a 2008 Gage R&R and not latest Gage R&R (2012) simply because the 2008 has a conclusion/writeup and the 2012 Gage R&R does not?

The TS auditor will not be notified of the above.
 
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Miner

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#2
Question 1 I will leave for the many covers that actually audit for a living. Question 2 is really a matter of ethics. Have you considered handling it in a different manner? Such as acknowledging the issue, performing a risk assessment and developing a remediation plan?
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Why did one pass and one fail? Sounds like the second one was different -- parts, fixturing, people, etc. You should be able to determine the difference.
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
I'm surprised that a 2006 Gage R&R went this long without anyone raising any concerns. I would find out why it failed, document it, fix it and perform another.
 
#5
The overall issue is not why it failed (however - it failed this year because people/lack of training).
- I am being told to flatout ignore the 2018 failed Gauge R&R / do nothing to correct it and present the 2006 Gauge R&R.
- We received a major nonconformance for not doing a large sum of the Control Plan Gauge R&R's last year.

The same auditor from last year will be here this year.
1. Can we receive another major nonconformance for this?
2. Or, is this beyond a major non-conformance?
3. Does this violate anything?
4. Any Lead Auditors - how would you react
 
#6
The same auditor from last year will be here this year.
1. Can we receive another major nonconformance for this?
2. Or, is this beyond a major non-conformance?
3. Does this violate anything?
4. Any Lead Auditors - how would you react
Experience shows there's a good chance of you receiving a major. Let's face it, the CBs are under pressure to elevate such situations to STOP the risks of poor product getting to the plant and into the market...
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
You received the major because they where mostly not done last year. The auditor will follow up on the effectiveness of your corrective action plan. If you show they have not been completed again this year, your corrective action was not effective. And that will be another write up with the possibility of being elevated.

Complete all Gage R&R's and address the issue of training the people performing them, test them and show the auditor. Redo the failed Gage R&R's. As long as you can show no defective product was shipped to the customer due to this, it should be fine or just garner a minor on Training.

I wouldn't use old data. This would just get you into more hot water if the auditor finds out.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
I agree. The auditor will update last years findings and check corrective actions. If it's not kosher, you'll get two findings -- one on the gage R&R and one on the corrective action system. It is easier to fix now, then go thru the CA process. If the issue is employee training, I would get them trained (ie; show them how to do it) and then run the gage R&R again. I can say that it happens a lot -- try one way, fail, adjust, fail, adjust again and pass. Good luck.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Already covered by the three above...but worth saying again...

The overall issue is not why it failed (however - it failed this year because people/lack of training).
The overall issue is, indeed, not why it failed.
It is also not what happens in the upcoming audit.

The overall issue is THAT it failed...using the folks who measure your parts for acceptability testing.
For whatever reason, training or otherwise...you are risking sending bad parts to your customer...that is the overall issue. Any findings stem from that core issue...a responsible company cannot ignore this.

We received a major nonconformance for not doing a large sum of the Control Plan Gauge R&R's last year.

The same auditor from last year will be here this year.
1. Can we receive another major nonconformance for this?
2. Or, is this beyond a major non-conformance?
I wrote you a finding last year for not doing an updated GRR...I look to see if you've addressed it and you show me another old GRR showing me that you ignored my finding last year...this is definitely "beyond" a major. I would worry about your cert staying in place, your system is broken and you're trying to hid it instead of fixing it. Not a wise choice, not a responsible choice.
 

Mr.Ruiz

Starting to get Involved
#10
The overall issue is not why it failed (however - it failed this year because people/lack of training).
- I am being told to flatout ignore the 2018 failed Gauge R&R / do nothing to correct it and present the 2006 Gauge R&R.
- We received a major nonconformance for not doing a large sum of the Control Plan Gauge R&R's last year.

The same auditor from last year will be here this year.
1. Can we receive another major nonconformance for this?
2. Or, is this beyond a major non-conformance?
3. Does this violate anything?
4. Any Lead Auditors - how would you react
1-Yes, per the Ninja, Golfman25, try2makeit and Andy N responses.
2-Yes as has been told by our colleagues.
3.Ethics, and jeopardize your Corrective Action, your GR&R system and proves a lack of good QMS.
4- Take the advise of all of the guys.

If I found that your measurement system did not pass. rather than ask you why you are hiding it, I would consider to check for your deviation and containment processes.
 
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