IMO our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

V

ValleyGirl

#1
OK OK .... I think I like this idea. This is an opinion I have that may ruffle a few feathers.

I think the only purpose that we have Quality Standards like AS9100B is so people that don't know how/what we do can come read a manual/procedure that you don't need and then criticize us for doing it wrong.

Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures (they didn't for years). They know how to do their job..they have enough pride to do it correctly. Internally we know how yo quote, receive, buy material, produce, inspect and ship without writing #*@%))6 procedures...because in our small shop, somethings might have to change for the sake of getting the job done, so we make the change...we don't need to document it.

That's all:cool:
 
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C

chaosweary

#2
Re: NOTICE: Controversial Discussions - STAY OUT OF THIS FORUM

I guess what she is saying is contraversial...? Anyway I need procedures because I just plain can't remember stuff. I do a lot of auditing with different procedures for different kinds of audits. I need them. Procedures also contain parameters so if someone is unsure about something they can check the procedure. Some of the worst violators of procedures are those with experience who "know how" to do the job. So I disagree with Valley Girl, if people know what they are doing and are following procedures why do we have laws? Look at the mess our "experienced" government and business "leaders" have gotten us into. Surely they know what they are doing...:sarcasm:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#3
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

I knew exactly what I was doing one day, being a trained expert and an instructor in the subject and nearly blew myself up along with a couple of innocent Marines with some high explosives. It seems like I put the safety checklist to memory instead of in my hands when wiring the electrical connections up.

Go ahead and use your philosophy............:lol:

BOOM!:blowup:
 
J

JHagani

#4
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

The main point for a good procedure, may not be for you (who already know everything and do it right).

You will be gone someday, and a good, accurate procedure means the next guy will take over without any glitches, and will do the process exactly the way you were doing it. (All according to procedure).
 
V

ValleyGirl

#5
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

You don't seem to get the point. There is no way a person can walk into our shop, read something and then procede to do the job. It just won't happen. Our people need and have years of experience, either they bring with them or learn slowly by working with our company. We employ intellegent people , that can talk to each other, get ideas across and procede with work. Taking time to document this or revise that gets in the way of doing the actual work. I'm not complaining - it's the reason I have a job here.
When this company was formed 25 years ago, you didn't have to deal with the AS9100 stuff. The focus was on the product, not the procedure....and beleive me there were PLENTY of people coming to us to have their work done. We employ people who truely care about their work. The sad part is there is not many people out there that do the same.
 
V

ValleyGirl

#6
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

Wow!
I think the procedure thing is for people like you who don't know what thier doing. So I can see when a procedure takes the place of common sense and experience. But I don't see why it is essential even required of those of us who do.

I knew exactly what I was doing one day, being a trained expert and an instructor in the subject and nearly blew myself up along with a couple of innocent Marines with some high explosives. It seems like I put the safety checklist to memory instead of in my hands when wiring the electrical connections up.

Go ahead and use your philosophy............:lol:

BOOM!:blowup:
 
C

chaosweary

#7
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

Hmm now the AS9100 was probably written by educated professionals for a reason. Probably just to make people's lives a bureaucracy!

It sounds as though those years of experience in doing something may be an opportunity to document a best practice or standard of quality. How can you get consistency or help to guarantee a standard of quality when of your workers may be out and another takes over for them? Do they all accomplish the work the same way? We are not talking about the documenting every breath here just critical points where abscence of documentation is a risk, even a flow chart can suffice as a procedure.
If your company and another company are competing and have very similar quality levels, guess who is going to get picked? Probably the one that is certified and has procedures. Not only are they doing it for themselves it also give the customer peice of mind. If you don't need the customers then forgo the cert and forget the procedures. :D

I have been shopping at grocery stores since I was 5...I still need a list.
 
J

JHagani

#8
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

Valley Girl,

You are talking AS9100, so I safely can assume you are an Aerospace company.

Do you have any procedures for record keeping, Material issue, Calibration, and document control? (Just to name a few). Or are all of your office personnel are highly knowledgeable also, and know exactly what to do?

I have been in Aerospace manufacturing for more than 20 years, and regardless of where I worked, we always had some employees with 20+ year experience and all the know how, but we always had new employees who did not have the knowledge to do the job.

I am not talking about a CNC machinist, a tool and die maker, or a laser programmer. These trades can not be learned from a procedure.

But a new Documet control guy can read your company procedure for document control, and can function the next day.

What if your tool calibration guy dies tomorrow? How does the next guy you hire know what needs to be calibrated, what intervals, what spec and how?

I don't care what kind of parts you make, and how good the parts are. I wouldn't place an order with such a company, who does not make a risk assessment, and relies heavily on certain employee knowledge.

This is exactly like saying you have the best production machine in the world, but you only have one machine, and no backup program. I would never risk my parts and production line on your one machine.

Good Luck!
 
V

ValleyGirl

#9
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

chaosweary said:
How can you get consistency or help to guarantee a standard of quality when of your workers may be out and another takes over for them?
REPLY : This happens rarely, maybe once every 4-5 years. We hire people we know to replace.

chosweary said:
We are not talking about the documenting every breath here just critical points where abscence of documentation is a risk, even a flow chart can suffice as a procedure
REPLY: If we don't document every breathe the Auditor has no idea of what to audit..They're into procedure...were into QUALITY PRODUCT <I know it's hard to conceive.

chaosweary said:
If your company and another company are competing and have very similar quality levels, guess who is going to get picked? Probably the one that is certified and has procedures.
REPLY: You're right, one of our customers is requiring it. But it is an exercise in to appease them, not us.

chaosweary said:
I have been shopping at grocery stores since I was 5...I still need a list
REPLY
I need a list too but ususalluy I get more than what is on the list...and don't add it to the list :yes:
 
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V

ValleyGirl

#10
Re: Our people don't need to read manuals or procedures and document changes to them

Whoops...I dont know how to include quotes in my post...Do you have a procedure??:biglaugh:
 
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