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Implementing ISO 9001:2000 in a Restaurant

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G

Gert Sorensen

#12
I'm spotting a trend here. QA staff offering to work for food or drink :confused: Seems that wages is not important to anybody else, ore that wages are depressing all over the world :notme:
 

apestate

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I make 14 million dollars a year that the government knows about as a CEO of a small-time venture capital startup without a single patent.

That's not true.

I'd offer administrative support for that implementation, Patrick.

Cheers
 
G

Gert Sorensen

#14
atetsade said:
I make 14 million dollars a year that the government knows about as a CEO of a small-time venture capital startup without a single patent.

That's not true.

I'd offer administrative support for that implementation, Patrick.

Cheers
SOOOO, It was you who stole my life!! :mad:
I always felt that there was a mix up at the maternity ward. :lol:
 
P

pldey42

#15
Re: Why do anything?

Hmmm ... well, Atetsade, you'll be pleased to know you've prompted me to ask some more questions ;-) (BTW I don't think any of us who do not know the restaurant business are qualified to give an opinion on whether applying ISO 9001 to it is a good idea or not. Best we can do is share our experience and let Dawelah make his or her own decision.)

First, ISO 9001 is very doc-centric, it insists on writing everything down. All the decent restaurants I have visited have one thing in common: a manager (maitre'd) overseeing all the tables and waiting staff, being extremely friendly with all the customers and pouncing on the slightest transgressions of waiting staff. They communicate and micro-manage a repeatable process every minute of the working day. What would be the benefit of writing down the waiting-table process when it is communicated verbally, constantly? Please don't say you could make the maitre'd redundant, or give her other things to do--would you really bet a restaurant business on less hands-on control? And, bear in mind, in many countries the people doing the waiting are immigrants from all over the place: how many languages would you translate it into (assuming they can read)?

Now let's turn to the kitchen which, from what I've seen of restaurant kitchens on TV, is run -- micromanaged -- by the head Chef ... who carries a meat cleaver and a cook's knife ;-) Again, why would he document processes when he's accustomed to shouting? (And, did you ever try to read a documented process in a kitechen: recipe books get awful messy!)

How would you construct an internal audit process? Who would the auditors be, how often would they audit?

How would ISO 9001 help the restaurant avoid the common mistakes that restaurants make that drive them out of business? They go very fast, and I suspect the first few months are very vulnerable: everyone comes to try the new place out, it's on best behaviour for the first few months, then they drift off, the staff get discouraged, the owner saves money by buying cheaper ingredients ... would ISO 9001 help such issues?

On costs: we can't know if it's expensive or not until someone actually adds the costs up and compares them with the margins the catering industry normally expects.

On stifling change: ISO 9001 does often stifle change, not so much because of the implementation but because of the audit process. When you have a process that's certified, you resist changing it for fear the auditors won't accept the revised version. To encourage them to accept it you have to spend time explaining it to them and if time=money it's often apparently cheaper to just leave things be. That's nuts, I know, but I've seen it happen more often than not because organisations, generally, fear to manage their auditors robustly because they want the certificate to pin on the wall.

One final thought: if the restaurant wants to compete with MacDonalds, with a repeatable process that can be duplicated anywhere in the world (they do that amazingly well) then ISO 9001 would be a grand idea in my uninformed-about-the-restaurant-business opinion. But if it's going to be a flag-ship operation with a fancy chef and a snazzy theme, I'd suggest weighing the costs (including the costs of staff and auditor time) and benefits objectively.

Patrick
 
N

Nemain

#17
Hi Dawelah,

I work in resorts in Egypt - we do not run an ISO based QMS but a home-made one, so I have hardly experience with ISO... but 1 thing I would like to tell you:
If you receive international customers, then definitely implement a HACCP (or similar) system (for kitchen, stores, food handling etc.) - I would say that this is even more important than any other QMS tools.

Unfortunately my time is extremely limited since weeks - I would love to speak more with you .-)

Read you - hopefully - after I freed myself from my work...
 

apestate

Quite Involved in Discussions
#18
My opinion on this matter could perhaps be summed up by a comparison of management styles. Let me illustrate with an example from my brief experience.

My father owns and runs a small business machine shop, and could be loosely compared to the chef you describe. He walks around and oversees all the production and supporting operations. He was never interested in documenting his processes. There is no procedure for sharpening a form tool, and there is no procedure for centering a cutoff. Why would he write documents that would never be read (assuming they can read) when he could get the work accomplished with shouting and excitability?

He didn't carry a cleaver and a cook's knife, but he had a checkbook and a foul mood on him.

The secretary of this business could be compared to the maitre'd, who is extremely polite to all the customers and visitors and quick to correct any transgressions by staff. This person micro-manages control of the purchasing, accounts, production schedule, and payroll. There is a minimum of documentation associated with her work as well. There are no work instructions for purchasing raw materials, and there is no redundancy in her position.

However, there are documents that are necessary, at a bare minimum, to accomplish the mission of the business. Setup sheets for machines are messy and terrible to read, but contain the required information. Material is labelled clearly, and calibrated instruments all have due date stickers.

In retrospect, a Denny's restaurant franchise is probably better managed, and generates more documentation than the above mentioned, ISO 9001:2000 machine shop.

The difference is that Denny's is a serious business.

The machine shop was at a size threshold where the traditional figurehead management of the owner/operator could just keep up with operations. It was never intended to be a serious business and has never gotten out of the micromanaging control of the two or three people who have ever been in charge.

For an organization to grow beyond this threshold, which 200 tables in a restaurant would far exceed, it's necessary to have controlled conditions. Nothing needs to be too regimented, but the processes must be formalized, documented, and then improved.

This is a great discussion, and I'm glad you picked up on it. I would like to look into some details that are on my mind, such as if a dish or a recipe requires design controls, if cooking is a production or service provision, and whether or not ISO 9001:2000 would help avoid the common mistakes and pitfalls that drive new restaurants out of business.

Since I have seen ISO 9001:2000 agree with the machine shop example, I can say that it is a flexible standard. There are as many ways to accomplish things as you can dream of.

Of course, I hold the pure premise that ISO 9001:2000 is as refined a management standard as could be drafted, and that if it is properly applied will provide the framework of success for any organization and for some things that you would not call an organization. I admire the standard and believe it is an important and new derivitive of progress in society.

Probably, a paradigm shift to service provision would shed light on the application of ISO 9001:2000 to a restaurant. I still work in machine shops, so I am not really capable of that.

pldey42 said:
If there's a bar, I'll offer to get that organised. I'll work for beer!
Cheers to that! Haha.
 
T

True Position

#19
Since we're offering our specialized assistances, for food and drink, I can assist you with incoming inspection on materials. Size of napkins, etc, almost any measurable you would find useful as a method to validate suppliers.

Don't forget if you go down this route, you'll need to find a 17025 accredited source to calibrate all measuring cups, scales, and other measuring tools.
 

apestate

Quite Involved in Discussions
#20
Nuclear home economics

We don't know if they have any medical or automotive customers...

Seriously, a restaurant's management system could be formalized and documented in accordance with the ISO 9001:2000 standard in an efficient and valuable manner.

If they do not require a formalized and documented management system, and management by walking around, policy by the rumor mill is effective and satisfactory, then ISO 9000 would not be applicable, because they would not need to demonstrate their ability to consistently provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements. Nevermind the aim of enhancing customer satisfaction through effective application of a management system.

It's necessary to shift paradigms from manufacturing to service. There are many here and abroad who have experience with this management system in service organizations.

Do you realize how easy it would be to implement ISO 9000 for a restaurant? People who joined the company would probably be surprised that the operations were so well documented and managed, but it would not be out of line.

It's easy anyway, the problem is that very few are doing it well.

I am RSVPing "maybe"
 
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